March 17, 2026

How to Make Smart Decisions Your Team Needs

How to Make Smart Decisions Your Team Needs
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Polished work can hide uncertainty and slow teams down. Lisa Rothstein explains how rough sketches spark honest discussion, cut overthinking, and speed decisions from months to minutes. “AI-perfect” outputs may hinder clarity, while visible imperfection builds trust. Even non-artists can use simple sketching to unlock stuck conversations and drive action.

Beyond Confidence is broadcast live Tuesdays at 10AM ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Beyond Confidence TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not

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those of W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliates.

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We make no recommendations or endorsement for radio show programs, services,

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Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any questions or common should

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be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing

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W four WN Radio.

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This is Beyond Confidence with your host d W. Park.

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Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do

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you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional,

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and financial goals? Well? Coming up on ZVO Parks Beyond Confidence,

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you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers

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who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and

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are living the life they want. You will learn how

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relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.

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Moving your career business forward does not have to happen

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at the expense of your personal or family life or

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vice versa. Learn more at www dot Dvpork dot com

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and you can connect with dvnts contact dants dvpark dot com.

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This is beyond confidence and now here's your host TV Park.

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Good morning listeners, and of course it is Tuesday morning

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and we are here together and just excited to be

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with you today. We have a special treat for you,

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something very different than what we usually normally talk about it.

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Before we get into it, I just want to share

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with you my book The AI Agency is out, and

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one of the things I want to share with you

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is that one thing that happened recently, my client shared

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with me that he was able to use one of

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the frameworks and use it in his company and it

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really helped him out and he's positioned very strongly for

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our promotion. So if you're looking to grow your business,

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or if you are looking to just kind of figure

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out what to do in the next era of AI,

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the AI Agency is for you. All right, without further ado,

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we will welcome our guest.

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Welcome Lisa, Hi, Great to be here, Great to have you, Lisa.

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Do you recall a moment or a person in your

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life who might have left to pass to Mark on you?

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Oh? Wow, so many.

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I'm thinking of a I'm thinking of a famous, a

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famous cartoonist here in.

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The United States that I really looked up to.

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And I got to meet her at a comic con

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one time, and very quickly I did a little sketch,

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a little doodo of her and gave it to her

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and she was so she was so wonderful to me,

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and she kind of offered to be my mentor, and

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so she's become a good friend now. And that was

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before I became a professional, So that that was really

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amazing for me to have appear like that.

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Oh, that's phenomenal, and you are a contoonist or if

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I'm not getting it dried, please do let me know

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how did you get into it?

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Well, it was something I wanted to do.

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And I was a little girl when I was when

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I was a child in New York City, the first

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thing I ever bought with my own pocket money was

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a little book of Snoopy cartoons. I'm still such a

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fan of Charles Schultz. I have a copy lug with

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my little Peanuts characters on it. And you know, that

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was really what I wanted to do. I would study

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it and I would say, how is it? These are

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just marks on a piece of paper.

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How is it?

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Why is it making me feel sad or feel like laughing?

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What?

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What is it that? What's this magic here?

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And my parents encouraged my creativity, but at the same time,

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they were from the Depression and they were worried that

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I would that I would be starving. So I was

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discouraged from trying to do that as a career, and

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so I ended up doing being an advertising instead, which

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was kind of I loved it. I loved making television

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commercials and things like that, but I never stopped drawing

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on the side. And there's a publication. I don't know

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how many of your how much of your audience is

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in the United States, but here in America there's a

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there's a magazine, very famous magazine called The New Yorker

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that's that's not for comic strips. It has cartoons though,

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for grown ups. And that's sort of the super Bowl

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of cartoons. And when I was in my twenties, I

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applied to you know, I sent in some of my work,

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and I got some very polite rejection letters, you know,

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and some encouragement, but you know, not I didn't they

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didn't take anything from me, and I wish I could

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say I've been trying ever since my twenties to do this,

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but I kind of gave up.

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I didn't.

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I didn't choose to give up. I just, you know,

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you just forget about it, you stop doing it, but

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you think, wow, this is not going to happen. And

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then a few years ago I met someone at another

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comic book convention, and they were at comic con in

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San Diego and they saw my work and they said,

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you know, you should try again because they're looking for

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more women and they're looking for different voices. And I

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was like, okay. Well, he said, well, the next time

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you're in New York, let me know and I will.

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I will.

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If I'm going down to see the editor, I'll take

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you with me and we'll i'll introduce you. And I thought, wow,

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that's really that's nice. And do you know I went

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back to New York three or four times after he

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made that offer, and I did not did not take

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him up on it, because I thought, oh, he was

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just being nice. Oh you know, and then one day

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I just said, are you crazy? Let him know you're here.

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So I did, and I met the editor, and obviously

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it takes a long time to get into the New York,

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or so I thought. But I went down again the

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following week with a new set of new package of work,

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and the very next week she did buy me. So

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that was a complete surprise. And then so then so

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all of a sudden, I went from you know, it

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only took me thirty years and like two weeks to

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do this, And it's not my main profession, but I'd

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love to teach other people how to use pictures to communicate,

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because I find it really a wonderful direct way of

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doing it, especially in the age of AI, which I

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know you're very interested in, and so am I. I

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love AI, and yet I feel that you know that

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human human marks on a piece of paper are still

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are still relevant and still stand out, especially now.

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I want to comment on a couple of things you mentioned.

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It only took me thirty years a dream realize as

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a dream realized. There's no the way I look at

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it is there's no age to it, there's no there's

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no season.

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For it, and it comes trough, it comes true.

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And when you talk about it, I come from lean

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six sigma background, and I'll tell you there's so much power,

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you know.

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View stickies and sharpie's and.

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Wallpaper, like you're sticking out and writing it out. So

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even today, there's so many studies that show that Immn's

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best pal is pen and paper.

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So of course that is so powerful that you got

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into it. And how was the feeling, you know, when

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you got into it.

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Well, it was a crazy situation because you know, the

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first time I went in, I was, you know, very nervous.

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I brought in a stack of things that I had

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drawn a long time ago. But there were still funny

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jokes because they were they were green kinds of things

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with dogs and I had I had won with uh.

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With the devil sitting at a table in a in

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a board room meeting. Everyone else is just a regular person,

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but the devil is sitting at the head of the

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table and he says something.

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He says, Uh, listen, you guys.

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When I when I need an advocate, I'll ask for

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one because someone has someone has just said, all, let

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me play Devil's advocate. So there he's like, ah, but

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I'm bump. Anyway, she liked that one. She kept it.

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I was like, oh, you know, so I went away

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from Uh. She didn't buy it, but she just held

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it over and I and I went away from that

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first meeting feeling like I already won because I had

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the courage to come in. I actually had a meeting.

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This is what professionals do. And I felt like that's

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almost that's enough.

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I mean, I'm happy. I'm happy already.

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And then the following week when I came in, I

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drew a whole bunch of things that week just so

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that I would have something to show, and I didn't

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think they were very good. But the night before, the

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night before I I went in, there was I had

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an idea because of something that was happening in the news,

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and I thought, that's really funny. I don't usually do

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political cartoons, but this one it was just a funny

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moment in politics, and I thought, I don't know, this

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is this is funny. I'm going to I'm going to

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do and I really just the next morning, I just

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really scribbled it very quickly. And so when I went

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to see the editor, I I showed her, you know,

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the things I had done for the week, and as

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I suspected, she said, well, this is okay, but oh well,

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we've already bought something like this. Oh well, you know,

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I'll here are all the things wrong with this one.

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And I'm like, okay, that's fine. I said, listen, I

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did something very very fast this morning. I know it's

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not for the magazine, but I wanted you.

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I wanted to show you that I could come up

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with a fast idea.

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And I showed her this this straw that I'd done

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that morning, and she looked at it and she said, well,

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that could be the daily cartoon. And I said, what's

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the daily cartoon? I didn't know what she was talking about.

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And the daily cartoon for the New Yorker is doesn't

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go in the magazine, you know, only was online. And

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it's related to things that are happening that day, like,

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for example, today at the time of this broadcast is

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Saint Patrick's Day, and they'll probably have a daily cartoon

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about Saint Patrick's Day. So so I said, oh, okay,

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and then she said, uh, and we send it out

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with a humor newsletter goes out to two million.

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People said wow, that's great.

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And then she said, well, it's too late for me

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for us to run it today, but we could run

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it tomorrow.

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And I was like, are you And.

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I literally said an unprintable unbroadcastable word to her.

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It was like, are you kidding me? Are you?

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And it was like, well, you know, just be just

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don't get too excited because we have to watch the

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news cycle. And this was this was a cartoon that

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featured then President Trump, who was now President Trump. This

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was the first administration and I and I and I

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was like, oh, you mean if he says anything or

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he does anything between now and tomorrow, that makes this

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no longer a funny joke, you won't be able to

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run it.

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And she said, yeah, that's about it all.

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And I prayed, was like, please don't say anything, Please

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don't tweet anything, Please don't do anything, because I want

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my childhood dream, please please. And lucky for me, nothing

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happened between the time I showed her the cartoon and

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the time that they decided the next day to use it.

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And the crazy thing was, I mean, they gave me

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a contract and all this stuff just has happened.

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I was in a daze.

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And the funny thing was that that day, because it

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goes up, that same day, I started getting calls and

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emails and messages from people I had not seen since

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I was a child. It was people in grade school

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who saw my name, and they must have subscribed to

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the Humor newsletter and they were like, are you the

231
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Lisa Rothstein He used to draw horses on the back

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of your mouth tests and Miss Covasi, are you literally?

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People I hadn't seen since I was ten years old,

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and it was the craziest thing. And it's oh and

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the best thing about it was that somehow I captured

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lightning in a bottle. And everybody thought this was a funny,

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a funny joke. And so I'll see if I can

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find it to show it to you on my iPad.

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But somebody from CNN, Jake Tapper from CNN shared it

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on his Twitter, and then a broadcaster from Fox News

241
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shared it on his Twitter, and then the Washington Post

242
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shared it on their Twitter, and that suddenly everybody was

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sharing this. It went completely viral. It was the first

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thing I'd ever done for them, and it was it

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was it was just a crazy moment, and I out

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of the park.

247
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You knocked it out of the park.

248
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I did.

249
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That's that's usually what happens.

250
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I have very good beginner's luck the first time I

251
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do something, you know, so I've never been able to

252
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do that again since then, it was just it was

253
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just a crazy you know, something struck me funny, and

254
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apparently other people felt the same way, and so it

255
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was it was just a very very viral thing and

256
00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:56.840
it was really fun that that happened. Yeah, so I

257
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still get a thrill, you know, it's not it never

258
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gets old. Also, sometimes what really gets me excited is

259
00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:07.759
when something gets licensed for products like this. This is

260
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a This is a bunch of a set of note

261
00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:12.559
cards that has one of my cartoons on the front,

262
00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.600
and it's basically all the cards are are have do

263
00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:19.720
have dog cartoons on them for people who are just listening.

264
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It is a story with a man and a woman

265
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meeting in the park and the dogs are hugging like

266
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they haven't seen each other in a long time, good

267
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old friends. And the man says to the woman, I

268
00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:35.039
guess you're right, we must have met before. We have

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met before.

270
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And that came this.

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This, this cartoon came out of real experiences I had

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in New York City where when I got a dog,

273
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suddenly I got to know my neighbors, but we didn't

274
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know each other's names. The dogs all knew each other,

275
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dogs had their favorite friends, but I'd be like, I don't,

276
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I don't I know the dog's name. I don't know

277
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the person's name. I don't know who this other person is,

278
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but my dog knows her dog. So that that was

279
00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:01.639
how that was how that cartoon came about.

280
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:03.679
That is beautiful.

281
00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:06.879
So when you draw on your life experiences as you

282
00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:08.519
draw cartoons.

283
00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:12.120
Yes, I mean that's that's Listen. The biggest hardest part,

284
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I think for any cartoonist is everyone's always asking where

285
00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:17.799
do you get your ideas or how do you get ideas?

286
00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:21.039
I mean, drawing is drawing is not that hard for

287
00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:21.759
most of us.

288
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It's the it's thinking, it's it's coming up with it's

289
00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:28.840
coming up with with ideas. And so from your own

290
00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:31.320
life is really a great, a great way to do it.

291
00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:34.679
You see a lot of good a lot of good,

292
00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:39.120
funny things that come out of family situations or marriage

293
00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:42.720
situations or parents and you know, like your own parents.

294
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I like to do.

295
00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:48.440
Things that use animals instead of people because it just

296
00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:53.559
I don't know, I've always loved the I love you.

297
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.840
Know, there is no personal feelings involved, and they're like

298
00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:58.480
just like music.

299
00:14:59.080 --> 00:14:59.759
Yeah, exactly.

300
00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:04.039
Yeah, they're very it's very neutral and uh and then

301
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:08.759
there are also so many, so many funny jokes with

302
00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.919
with with animals. You know, I've done a lot of

303
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.639
animal cartoons. In fact, I had a big show of

304
00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:17.600
all of all of my animal cartoons at a at

305
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:19.879
a gallery a couple of years ago, and they they

306
00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:21.720
somebody offered me this show, and I'm like, I'm not

307
00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:25.279
sure I've done enough animal cartoons to do this, because

308
00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:26.759
they wanted an animal the thing.

309
00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:29.120
And then when I looked through my archives, It's like, no,

310
00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:29.360
I have.

311
00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:34.159
I have like dozens of these and here's let's see,

312
00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:37.919
here's one ah that I did with a friend of mine.

313
00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:38.879
What happens.

314
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:40.720
What happens when you become a cartoonist for the New

315
00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:42.720
Yorker is everyone you've ever met says, oh, I have

316
00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:45.000
an idea for a cartoon, would you draw it? And

317
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:47.039
most of them are terrible, but this one was actually

318
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.679
pretty good and they actually bought it. I don't know

319
00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:52.279
if you can see, but there's a man playing chess

320
00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:55.240
with a dog and he says to his wife, he's

321
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:57.240
not that smart. I just took his queen for a

322
00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:01.480
biscuit and so and the Dotterie is still staring at

323
00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:03.879
the board wondering like how did he lose this game?

324
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:04.279
You know?

325
00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.639
Yeah, and you know, as they say, a picture is

326
00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:12.799
worth a thousand words. So coming to that, so many

327
00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:16.480
times what happens is that, you know, teams can be

328
00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:21.240
sitting there, you know, they're stuck right and they're going

329
00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:23.519
into the polish or I cannot say this, I cannot

330
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:27.879
say that. So can you share, like you know, a

331
00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:31.559
teach our audience how we can intentionally, like you know,

332
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:35.360
create some rough sketches to cut through overthinking.

333
00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:39.679
Right, So now that we've talked about all of my

334
00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:41.919
experience as a cartoonist, and I'm going to talk to

335
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:46.320
you about how it's important not to make things look beautiful.

336
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:48.519
So but I do use a lot of car I

337
00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:52.000
do use a lot of cartoons cartooning techniques in the

338
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.639
way I teach people how how to draw.

339
00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:55.840
But like you can, if.

340
00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:57.879
You're sitting in a situation, you can have a situation

341
00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.080
where you're basically like the team is over here, this

342
00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:02.559
is a cliff, like this is a mountain or something,

343
00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:05.680
and you've got you've got your team over here, and

344
00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:09.400
there they've got they've got something that's just a bunch

345
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:11.839
of people over here and then there's maybe something that

346
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.400
they want over here, and that could be that could

347
00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:18.440
be money, I'm gonna make make a bag of money here,

348
00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.240
or that could be some kind of victory, some kind

349
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:23.839
of prize of some kind.

350
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:28.039
You know, you can just to find what I'm hearing

351
00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:28.519
over here?

352
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:30.759
Is that, like you know, as you're sketching for our

353
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:34.440
listeners audio listeners, is that on one side you draw

354
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:38.240
where the current status is, where people are, and then

355
00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:40.559
to the right side of the paper you.

356
00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.200
Can have your goal and viteorva you want to like,

357
00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:43.480
you know.

358
00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:46.680
Sometimes it can be product, people can be building, it

359
00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:47.880
can be actoring.

360
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:49.599
Draw out your goal.

361
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:52.359
Right exactly, and it does and it can be a

362
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:55.200
very for anybody listening and not seeing. It's very simple

363
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.559
little icons that are that anybody can draw that everybody, Okay,

364
00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:03.079
this rep and it's money, this represents victory of some kind.

365
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:04.680
You know whatever, and you don't.

366
00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.000
You can put words too. But but it doesn't only

367
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:10.759
have to be pictures. But then which you can do

368
00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:13.000
is you can basically say, well, what here's the gap

369
00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:14.680
we want to be. We're here, we want to we

370
00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:17.480
want to get here, So now what what's the what

371
00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:21.640
are the stages or the steps that can make that

372
00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:23.759
can bridge us from going over here. And so now

373
00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:25.920
we can now we can define like what goes in

374
00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:28.039
each of these boxes, and you know, you could be

375
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:31.039
writing things. You can be you know, you don't only

376
00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:34.319
have to be drawing things if you want to get fancy,

377
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:36.559
you can also be like what happens if we fail?

378
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:38.400
Like what happens if we don't make it? You know,

379
00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:40.759
are there sharks in the water down here?

380
00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:41.000
Like?

381
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:44.359
Or is there really no no consequence to our not

382
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:47.480
making it across? But but the the idea is like,

383
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:50.480
anybody can draw this. But what's good about this is

384
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:53.200
that it opens up a conversation. Now we're all looking

385
00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:55.880
at the same picture. We're all facing in the same direction,

386
00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:58.279
looking at the same thing, and saying, well, what if we.

387
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:00.880
Added this over here? Or what if we change our

388
00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:04.079
goal to be something else? Or what if we add more.

389
00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:06.400
People to our team so that we can do more

390
00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:08.519
work to get across this thing? I mean, that's these

391
00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:12.640
are just ideas. But the point is that having a

392
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:18.079
rough sketch like this gives people allows people to feel

393
00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:22.279
included because it's not a PowerPoint, it's not finished, it's

394
00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:24.039
not AI where I press a button and you have

395
00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:26.960
this beautiful finished thing that that now feels like, well,

396
00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:29.079
I'm not sure I can actually add anything to this

397
00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:32.880
because it's done and I wasn't involved this. I like

398
00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:37.720
to do this kind of work before I involve any

399
00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:41.319
kind of finish, like you know, like people go straight

400
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:44.240
to a finished product. We have such great technology that

401
00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:47.960
allows us to even before AI happened, you know, you

402
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.640
could go straight to a beautiful a beautiful presentation or

403
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:54.799
something like that. And sometimes they're really the thinking didn't

404
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:57.400
go in before, and now you have a beautiful presentation

405
00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:03.839
of very unprocessed thoughts, you know, And so this is

406
00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.279
this is a great way to process you're thinking, to

407
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:09.480
allow everybody to be creative, to allow everybody to feel

408
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:13.960
included and to feel heard. And everybody owns the finished

409
00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:17.160
picture because they've all contributed to it. So there's more

410
00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:22.079
there's more buy in from everybody on the team, and

411
00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:25.000
there's more memory that of what here's what we decided.

412
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:27.079
Oh I remember when we drew that picture together, So

413
00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:29.359
now I know what I'm supposed to do instead of like, oh,

414
00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:30.039
I left the.

415
00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:32.559
Meeting and I'm not sure what just happened.

416
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:36.279
You know, I do know that whenever I do this

417
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:39.400
sort of thing, and I'll do it on my iPad sometimes,

418
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:40.880
but when I'll do this sort of thing during a

419
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:42.920
PowerPoint or during.

420
00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:44.960
A because you can, you can do You don't have to.

421
00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.400
Sketch instead of doing a presentation. You can do both.

422
00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:50.759
In fact, I know someone who taught me something called

423
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.799
smile slide sketch. So this is if you're doing a

424
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:58.759
virtual presentation or you're doing a virtual meeting. Smile is

425
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.119
me on the camera, like like you're on the camera

426
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.720
right now, talk talk doc. I'm saying my thing. Now,

427
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:05.599
I might go to my PowerPoint and say, let me

428
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:08.680
see here's here's here's what we're talking about today. And

429
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:10.720
now I might go to my sketch pad and say,

430
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:12.119
let me show you what I mean, and then you

431
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.039
start to draw out an example of what you mean.

432
00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:19.319
Those If you cycle between those three, those three things,

433
00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:22.799
you keep the engagement because people don't aren't just sitting

434
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.200
there passively looking at the same at the same picture,

435
00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:28.720
at the same face the entire time. But it also

436
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:32.799
gives people different ways of understanding the same information I've

437
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.720
told you, I've shown you, Uh, you know, some writing

438
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:37.559
about it, and now I'm going to draw you a

439
00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:39.480
picture about it that tells the story of how it

440
00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:42.680
might work in real life. And it's just a really

441
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:48.960
complete way of explaining a concept. So that's the and

442
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:50.519
it's it's it's a great way of in keeping people

443
00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:52.319
engaged on really long zoom calls too.

444
00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.960
Yeah, no, especially with the Virshow and so many companies,

445
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.440
you know, because of what happened, you know, post COVID. Yes,

446
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:03.039
companies bringing people back into the offices, and yet there

447
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.160
are more teams there that are still working. So this

448
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:09.319
is a really good way of engaging, especially during the

449
00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:12.559
zoom calls. So many times what happens is that there

450
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:18.240
are some hidden layers, and what happens is that like

451
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:21.079
people are awarding those So do you have any techniques

452
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:23.799
in that drawing that could cut through those conversations?

453
00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:27.200
Yes, I mean, like everyone knows about the elephant in

454
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:31.279
the room, right. So sometimes sometimes when i'm when I'm

455
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:34.599
facilitating something, or I'm when i'm just sometimes I work

456
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:38.720
with other people and they're facilitating something, I will literally

457
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:46.400
I will literally draw an elephant. So for your people

458
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:50.839
who are so this is this is a very quick elephant.

459
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.440
So I literally draw an elephant. These a little worried

460
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:58.799
worried elephants. So you could actually, uh, if you're using

461
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:01.319
something like Mirro or a mural or something like that,

462
00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:06.720
one of the online whiteboarding collaboration tools, this is actually

463
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:09.599
a little bit easier, but you can actually ask people

464
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:13.039
to to put make sticky notes of what they think.

465
00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:14.400
What have we not mentioned?

466
00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:17.240
What are we what are we tiptoeing around? I mean

467
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:20.440
sometimes I'll hear and I'll say, I am I as

468
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:22.319
the as someone who might be describing in a meeting

469
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:24.839
or like taking visual notes, and people ask me sometimes

470
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:28.960
to give my give my uh not not my opinion,

471
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.319
but basically what did I hear? It's like, well, I

472
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:33.160
heard all this, but here's what I didn't hear. And

473
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:35.720
I have this suspicion that people are not discussing this

474
00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:38.039
for some kind of reason. And people are like, oh, well,

475
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:39.720
we just didn't want to go there.

476
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:40.599
They admit it.

477
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:42.640
But you can just you can have a picture of

478
00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:46.240
an elephant and basically have everybody come and put sticky

479
00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:48.400
notes around the elephant like this, these are these are

480
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:50.200
things that we haven't talked about that I think we

481
00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:53.359
should discuss or here's something that's big, a big deal,

482
00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:56.759
and but obviously nobody wants to be associated nobody is

483
00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:59.880
it's help it's helpful if it's anonymous, you know, because

484
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.960
nobody wants to the reason people don't want to talk

485
00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:05.279
about it is because they don't want to have They

486
00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:06.440
just they don't want to be the one to bring

487
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:11.680
it up. So uh, in some cases, virtual meetings are

488
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.160
better for something like this because you know, on a

489
00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:18.359
on a program a platform like mural or miuro some

490
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:19.200
people call it myro.

491
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:22.640
I know, Mirror dot com is like Mirror is very popular.

492
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:23.960
What's the second one you mentioned?

493
00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:27.000
Mural It's called it's so annoying that they have very

494
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:30.640
similar sounding names. It's called mural, m u r a L.

495
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:33.759
It's like a mural, like a like a like a

496
00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:36.680
wall mural. It's the exact same that's the exact same

497
00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.279
thing that Miro does. And but one of the things

498
00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:43.480
that is, you know, during COVID, we all get very

499
00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:49.920
familiar with these with these programs, and I did notice

500
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.920
that there were some advantages, Like one advantage to the

501
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:55.799
to to doing it these kinds of things remotely is

502
00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:58.519
number one. You've got you've got able to do a

503
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:03.279
synchronous uh asynchronous work, but also people in different places

504
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:06.240
in different time zones can all can all contribute. But

505
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.400
the best thing for me is you can actually put

506
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:12.079
up your sticky notes without anybody knowing who's was, who's so,

507
00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:16.000
and you can vote on things without anybody seeing how

508
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:20.160
you're voting. So for people who don't know this this

509
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:25.759
technique in design thinking and other kinds of workshops like that,

510
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:29.160
you'll have something that they call dot voting. So people

511
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:32.039
people put up their sticky notes. I don't know how

512
00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:34.039
much how many of your how much of your audience

513
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:36.759
already knows this, So I'm maybe telling everybody things they already.

514
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:38.680
Have, please walk them through I know mode.

515
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:43.559
Yeah, so you'll have everybody has sticky notes in there,

516
00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:45.400
and what I One thing I love about this tech,

517
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:48.599
about all the techniques in design thinking is you're getting

518
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.160
to work together, but alone you're not. It's not a

519
00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:53.759
bunch of people talking to each other and and brainstorming.

520
00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:57.559
I love brainstorming, but usually one or two people dominate.

521
00:25:57.720 --> 00:25:59.599
I'm usually one of them, one of the two people dominate.

522
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:03.359
The converse when it's when you're working together alone or

523
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:06.279
alone together, everybody writes down their ideas on a sticky

524
00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:09.240
note quietly, and then they all put the sticky notes

525
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:11.319
up on the wall, and then everybody gets to see

526
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.240
what everybody else was thinking without being influenced by each other.

527
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:18.000
And so what you could do with the elephant situation

528
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.480
is you could have a picture of an elephant and

529
00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:25.000
basically have everybody write down sticky notes of what are

530
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:27.319
we not discussing that we should be discussing that has

531
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:29.680
been a problem for a while, or what is an

532
00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:33.039
awkward conversation that needs to be had, and people can

533
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:36.039
write privately write down what they think. And if you're

534
00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:39.799
doing it remotely, you can have people be like anonymous,

535
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:43.559
putting these things up on the wall and on the

536
00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:48.640
virtual wall, and then you could decide everybody can see

537
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:52.640
now here all the things that everybody thought we should

538
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:55.359
be talking about. You're able to see how many other

539
00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:57.559
people agreed with you because they put up almost the

540
00:26:57.559 --> 00:26:59.759
same idea you did, and you can see. And then

541
00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:02.519
you can and also have people vote. You have you

542
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:05.039
get you give each other each person so many votes,

543
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:08.079
so many dots. We call it like sticky dots, to

544
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:10.400
put on each of the each of the things, thinking

545
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:13.279
which of these things should we really just tackle because

546
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:16.920
it's going to give us the most impact if you're

547
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:19.440
doing it remotely. It's kind of fun because you can't

548
00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:23.000
see where the dots are going until we reveal the winners.

549
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.160
This one got twenty five dots, and this one got

550
00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:28.279
five dots. Okay, obviously this one is the one that

551
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:31.160
we need to be talking about. And it's it's it's

552
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:35.559
a communal it's a communal experience without people influencing each other,

553
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:39.160
which I think is really helpful. Yeah, it's kind of

554
00:27:39.880 --> 00:27:41.680
to make to make a fun picture of an elephant.

555
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:44.319
And and okay, this doesn't have to be that serious.

556
00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.720
Let's let's let's just let's just finally tackle this problem.

557
00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:50.759
Yeah, helpful but powerful.

558
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:56.680
Yeah, And so you have talked about, like you know,

559
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.839
especially in this AI era, like what happens is some

560
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:05.160
times people are talking through air. So for example, like

561
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:07.000
you know, one of the things I believe is that

562
00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:11.960
if you don't use you lose the skills. So it's

563
00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:16.400
important to keep on like fine tuning it and harnessing

564
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:19.680
your skills. So while you're doing that, and then a

565
00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:22.680
lot of times what happens is, especially so many of

566
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.799
my clients are already like using a generated things.

567
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:29.960
And bringing it so it can reduce the trust. Is

568
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:32.880
it you're talking? Is it AI talking right?

569
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:33.160
So?

570
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:35.119
How can you.

571
00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:37.640
Mentioned about like you like, there's so many people like

572
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:40.000
who are scared, including myself about.

573
00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:43.440
Drawing is but it becomes a point of humor.

574
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:47.039
Do you have a simple technique that our audience can

575
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:48.279
use immediately?

576
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:51.960
Yes, I mean it's it's simple, but it takes a

577
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:52.960
little time to explain.

578
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:53.400
I do.

579
00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:55.839
And you probably see I have a book over my shoulder.

580
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:57.680
People who are looking this little book called Drawing at

581
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:00.200
Your Genius, where I talk about this a lot. I

582
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:04.559
break it down into into three different buckets because people

583
00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:07.079
think like, well I can't draw, and they think, but

584
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:08.920
that's what they what they really mean is that I

585
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.759
can't draw everything, like I couldn't draw something, you know,

586
00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:15.400
like out of the blue. And I'm telling them, well,

587
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:19.319
it's a little bit like if you will go to

588
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:21.279
Paris and you want to go to a restaurant and

589
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:23.440
order lunch. You don't need to know how to say

590
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:25.839
absolutely everything in French. You don't need to know how

591
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:28.720
to read balls act. You just need to say, need

592
00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:31.920
to know a few simple things. And so the few

593
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:35.200
things that you know that I feel like people need

594
00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:39.400
to know are I break them down to three things that.

595
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:39.960
Start with C.

596
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:47.599
I talk about character, concepts, and context. So character is like, well,

597
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:50.599
you know, there's all kinds of like different expressions you

598
00:29:50.599 --> 00:29:52.319
can make that just takes Look, this is the sort

599
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:54.640
of thing that I was telling you about earlier, where

600
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:58.079
when I was studying the Peanuts books, like how is

601
00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:00.599
it that I just changed these couple of lines and

602
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:05.000
it changes the expression of the people. So character would

603
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:07.720
be how to express humanity and emotion and not just

604
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:09.400
a stick figure. And I show people how to do

605
00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:11.559
stuff where it's easy but still.

606
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:13.160
Not a stick figure. I'll show you that in a second.

607
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:20.240
Concepts are things like icons and symbols. So if people

608
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:22.680
can look, if people are watching this, I'm showing you

609
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:25.240
a picture of the Earth, which is basically just a

610
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:27.119
circle with a couple of squiggles on it, but it

611
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:29.599
looks like the Earth about how you draw it. But

612
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:33.039
the magical thing about that is that it can mean

613
00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:35.039
lots of different things depending on what words you put

614
00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:35.319
with it.

615
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:38.000
So it could mean you could be talking about travel,

616
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:41.079
or you could be talking about logistics. For your company.

617
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:45.559
You could be talking about climate or you could be

618
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:46.759
talking about world peace.

619
00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:48.240
It's the same picture.

620
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:51.960
But the idea is that it can symbolize lots of

621
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.319
different things. And so there are a few symbols that

622
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:57.240
that might come up a lot in your work that

623
00:30:57.319 --> 00:30:58.920
you can just learn to draw very quickly and that

624
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:02.759
be very simple. And then there are things like then

625
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:05.759
there's context. And what I call context is a little

626
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:08.960
bit is like the the first drawing that we did.

627
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.720
That had the two cliffs, where does this live? Where

628
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:16.559
is the where is the Uh?

629
00:31:16.759 --> 00:31:19.599
It's like a metaphor you know, or frameworks or things

630
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:24.440
like that, diagrams things and things like roads and bridges

631
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:28.759
and icebergs and things that that that that anybody can draw,

632
00:31:28.839 --> 00:31:30.319
but that that will allow you to and then you

633
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:34.079
can put the characters and the concepts in those same pictures.

634
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:35.880
Let me show I'm going to show you a little

635
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:40.559
example of what I mean about about how about how character.

636
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:43.720
Can can change. But I take people through this all

637
00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:43.960
the time.

638
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:47.359
Usually I do more, more, more different examples, but because

639
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:50.119
of time, I'm going to keep this short. So if

640
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:52.680
I if I make these I make I've made a

641
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:57.799
bunch of oval shapes and and I'm putting about a

642
00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:00.759
third of the way down some some eyeballs here, and

643
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:04.160
then I put it under that like a little a little.

644
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:05.440
U shaped kind of a nose.

645
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:09.079
So now so now we have like six identical faces

646
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:12.000
here and on the top row I'm going to put

647
00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:14.079
these people are all going to be smiling. So now

648
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:17.119
we have, you know, three people on top who are

649
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:20.319
who are pretty much the same expression, expressing the same emotion.

650
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:22.720
But if I take if I if I do two

651
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:26.480
lines here and maybe a little tear drop, that person

652
00:32:26.680 --> 00:32:31.559
has a completely different emotion. Oh yeah, see how it

653
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:33.880
makes it and it makes you feel something. It's it's

654
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.079
so that's this is this is what I was telling

655
00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:38.279
about when I when I first when I was five

656
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:41.000
years old and I was looking at snoopy cartoons. Then

657
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:43.920
I take a third person and I make two different

658
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:49.359
kind of marks over the eyes, and that person is like,

659
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.279
it looks like the sneaky. So we have just a

660
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:57.160
regular person, you know, a kind of an emotional person,

661
00:32:57.319 --> 00:32:59.720
maybe watching a sad movie or something, or you gave

662
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:01.720
them a gift and they're and they're and they're moved,

663
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:03.720
or they're looking at their child for the first time

664
00:33:03.799 --> 00:33:07.039
or something or cute puppy. And then this person is

665
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:10.759
planning your demise. This person is a sneaky, evil person.

666
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:15.160
The difference between these three is a couple of lines

667
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:17.519
different and anybody can do this, you just have to

668
00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:18.359
practice a little bit.

669
00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:20.559
And if you do. Down here.

670
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.720
More like unhappy people. Now, these three are all the same.

671
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:27.960
These are all just generally displeased people. But if I

672
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:31.079
take the eyebrows from this person and put them on

673
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:34.759
this person, that person is now sad, you know, give

674
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:36.799
them a tear drop to that person is sad and

675
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:40.720
grieving and upset. Very simple, very very only two only

676
00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:42.440
three different marks on here.

677
00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:44.079
Yeah, very powerful.

678
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.400
Look yeah, I know the same.

679
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:48.720
And then the same thing with this. I'm going to

680
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:52.039
take this eyebrows and put it on here. Now you

681
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:56.079
have an angry person. So now you now for people

682
00:33:56.079 --> 00:34:00.640
who are watching on TV or on your computer, you

683
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:06.039
are now looking at six completely different expressions, six different emotions.

684
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:08.679
This could be your customer, This could be your client,

685
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:13.800
This could be you know, your colleague. You know, I

686
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:18.719
want people to go from from angry to to just happy,

687
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:21.559
or I want people to go from from sad to

688
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:25.280
determined and let's let's go and get let's go and

689
00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:26.159
get our competition.

690
00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:28.559
You know, we lost last year and now we're going

691
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:28.760
to go.

692
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:31.239
And my point is each of these, each of these

693
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:34.320
faces tells a story, and it is not you don't

694
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:36.360
have to be an artist to do this, as everyone thinks, Oh,

695
00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:39.239
I'm not an artist. It's like, this is not about art.

696
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:41.280
In fact, I like to say, the worse it looks,

697
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:42.599
the better it works.

698
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:44.000
And people don't believe me.

699
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:46.320
People say, people think, oh, you're only saying that because

700
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.079
you're an artist and I'm not, and you're trying to

701
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:51.440
make me feel better. I'm saying absolutely not. I'm saying

702
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:55.360
I have to force myself to do the simplest. I

703
00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:57.119
don't want people to say, oh, I love the way

704
00:34:57.159 --> 00:34:57.599
you drew that.

705
00:34:57.719 --> 00:34:58.320
I don't want that.

706
00:34:58.360 --> 00:34:59.639
I don't want people to say, oh, you're such a

707
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:02.559
wonderful artist. I want people to understand the idea. What's

708
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:05.559
the communication. So the more you make it about the

709
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:09.519
picture you're drawing and not about the idea you're communicating,

710
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:13.159
you are stealing from yourself. So it's better to not

711
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:15.559
be good at drawing. It's better to just be clear

712
00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:18.920
at drawing and in that case, you really only need

713
00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:19.880
the bare minimums.

714
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:21.880
That's what I was trying to demonstrate. Just there.

715
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:25.920
Oh, that's so powerful, and I'm definitely getting your book,

716
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:30.599
and I'm sure like our audience is going to get

717
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:34.599
your book. And so one very quick question, as we

718
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:36.719
are getting to the end of the show. So many

719
00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:39.159
times what happens is that people are stuck in the

720
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:42.960
decision making. Do you have any quick tips as to

721
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:47.480
sometimes decisions are dragging on from mom's how could the

722
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:48.719
drawing cut through it?

723
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:51.719
Well, I want to talk about that, and I also

724
00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:53.480
want to answer I don't think I answered your question

725
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:57.440
before about trust because with the AI and to me,

726
00:35:57.800 --> 00:35:59.519
one of the things that I love to say about

727
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:02.480
about this kind of work is that it's it's proof

728
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:06.119
of humanity. It's proof that a person was involved at

729
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:10.159
some stage in this process. When you see a rough sketch,

730
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:13.159
it means that that I, this was not produced by AI,

731
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:15.239
although I could make a picture like this, but the

732
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:18.760
idea is, here's here's something where people were actually thinking

733
00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:20.760
about this and then and then you've given it to

734
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:23.599
AI to to maybe generate some more ideas or something

735
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:26.639
like that. As far as decisions are concerned. It's a

736
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.400
lot easier to get to a decision when you have

737
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:35.760
you know, when you have uh, something where it's like, well,

738
00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:37.960
you know, here here, I am at the beginning of

739
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:41.000
of a of a long journey that we're going to

740
00:36:41.079 --> 00:36:43.400
take to Maybe maybe you're in project management or something,

741
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:46.320
and we're trying to get from here to here. It's like, well,

742
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:48.519
what sort of milestone should we have along the way

743
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:51.159
that we are going to that we're going to do.

744
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:53.639
It's like when you're when you're talking about this in

745
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:58.000
front of other people and they can add their their suggestions,

746
00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:01.199
and then everybody can decide right then and there, well,

747
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:01.599
which of.

748
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:04.559
Which of these things are we going to do? Which

749
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:05.159
of these.

750
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:08.199
Things will will we'll give will will give us the

751
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:11.800
most uh, we'll get us the closest to where we're

752
00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:12.559
trying to get to.

753
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:16.000
For example, and I.

754
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:19.519
Mentioned design thinking before, in many cases, if you're doing

755
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:22.599
a design sprint or something like that, there is a

756
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:25.360
time for discussion. But then there's also somebody who has

757
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:28.519
been designated from the beginning as the decider. It's like,

758
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:31.719
so that we can move forward, we can we can

759
00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:33.719
all make our case for what we think, but then

760
00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:36.280
at the very end of the end of the day,

761
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:40.519
Deva is going to be the person who decides, and

762
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:42.800
and everyone agrees that you're the decision maker.

763
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:44.280
And and that.

764
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:46.440
Doesn't mean, you know, we trust you not to do

765
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.239
something completely different than what the group wants.

766
00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:51.320
But if there are if there's two or three competing ideas,

767
00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:52.800
you're going to be the one. And that's it.

768
00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:56.199
So the first most important thing for making decisions is

769
00:37:56.239 --> 00:37:58.920
to decide that you're going to decide. You're not going

770
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:02.480
to say, well, let's have an meeting or something like that.

771
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:05.400
This meeting is meant to have an outcome, and the

772
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.280
outcome is going to be we're going to make a

773
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:09.480
decision about how we're going to move forward with this project.

774
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:12.360
And if there are some things where we need more

775
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:14.320
information that we're going to decide, we're going to have

776
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.280
that information by you know, tomorrow or two weeks from now,

777
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:19.280
and then we're going to But you know, most of

778
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:20.920
the time, you can make a lot of decisions right

779
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:23.360
there in the room, but it's helpful to have to

780
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:26.519
see it all again when you're looking at something like

781
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:29.639
this together and you're adding your own ideas to it. Together,

782
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:33.239
everybody's facing in the same direction. They're not talking across

783
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:36.840
the table from each other and arguing, we're all looking

784
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:39.800
the same way, and we're all adding to this picture

785
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:45.039
and all discussing. And also it surfaces any misunderstandings like oh,

786
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:46.800
I thought you meant this, but now I see you

787
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:49.679
mean that. It's like yes, okay, well, well all right,

788
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:53.400
and then people walk away at least with understanding where

789
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:56.920
they agree and where they don't. But the most important

790
00:38:56.920 --> 00:38:59.559
thing about deciding is deciding that you're going to decide

791
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:03.719
and not and not out of politeness sometimes just let

792
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:07.079
things float on everyone. I think people don't I don't

793
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:10.119
think people don't decide because they're indecisive. I think sometimes

794
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:13.119
they don't decide because they want They don't want to

795
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:16.039
make anyone feel bad that you know that they're that

796
00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:19.280
they're that their wish was not the one that went forward,

797
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:21.559
or something like that. When you when you when you're

798
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:24.920
when you do a collaborative process like this, no one

799
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:28.159
can say they were not heard. No one can say, uh,

800
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:30.440
you know, I didn't get a chance to make my case.

801
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:32.800
Everyone makes their case and then and then if if

802
00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:34.960
you've set it up this way, then there is a decision,

803
00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:38.639
someone is someone decides, and then and then you can

804
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:40.599
go forward and then if it doesn't work out, you

805
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:42.679
can go back and try again. But if you but

806
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:49.880
if nothing is decided, nothing happens, so.

807
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:51.119
So powerful, and thank you, thank you for sharing your

808
00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:55.079
wisdom so generously and so many times. What happens is

809
00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:58.519
I hear back from our listeners and viewers and audience

810
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:03.079
will share that that little thing resonated. And I'm sure

811
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:07.239
today our wonderful audience is going to take away so

812
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:09.719
many things with them and it's going to be so

813
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:11.079
helpful for them.

814
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:12.679
To not only be.

815
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:19.599
As you mentioned, you know, you're not talkument good artists,

816
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:21.480
but like you know, be better communicators.

817
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:24.000
And it's so important that And there's so many different

818
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:27.800
applications of this. So Lisa tell us, where can people

819
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:30.039
connect with you? Where can they find your book?

820
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:34.000
Well, the book is on Amazon right now. That's that's

821
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:37.079
the only place you can probably get it. And if

822
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:40.079
you like, my website is drawing out your Genius dot com,

823
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:41.800
which makes it very simple because that the name of

824
00:40:41.800 --> 00:40:45.199
the book is drawing out your Genius and the subtitle

825
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:48.039
is used vision thinking to sell ideas, drive, buy in

826
00:40:48.119 --> 00:40:50.280
and lead change. So if you're doing any of those things,

827
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:52.960
if you need people to buy into your idea, or

828
00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:56.519
if you need to if you have experiencing change in

829
00:40:56.559 --> 00:41:00.559
your organization and you want people to understand it, then

830
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:03.119
it says it's something there are. There are applications in

831
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:05.800
it for how to use this in sales, how to

832
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:08.760
use this in meetings, how to use this in innovation,

833
00:41:09.079 --> 00:41:12.000
and things like that. So I hope people enjoy it.

834
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.559
But the first chapter is all about the about how

835
00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:19.199
anybody can use character, concepts and context to help communicate

836
00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:21.559
and lead better at the office or at board home.

837
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:27.719
Mm hmm, any last advice you'd like to give.

838
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:33.440
Yes, here's a secret everybody. Most everybody thinks they can't draw.

839
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:36.239
If you're the one who is brave enough to pick

840
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:38.320
up the marker and go to the whiteboard or go

841
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:40.320
to the piece of paper or go to the iPad,

842
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:43.480
everyone is going to be paying attention to you. Everybody's

843
00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:45.800
going to lean in, everybody's going to ask you after

844
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:47.920
the meeting, oh, could you send me those visual notes

845
00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:50.320
you showed or those diagrams that you did in the meeting.

846
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:52.840
They don't ask for the PowerPoint slides. They ask for

847
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.599
the little scribbles you did during the meeting. If you

848
00:41:55.719 --> 00:41:57.880
have the courage to be the one to pick up

849
00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:59.719
the marker, you will be You will be in a

850
00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:02.400
position of influence that you don't even if you think

851
00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:06.039
now you couldn't do it because everyone's afraid. And when

852
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:08.280
you when you have the courage, then you then you

853
00:42:08.440 --> 00:42:12.079
become the leader. So just a little secret for people

854
00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:12.800
in your audience.

855
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:17.840
Well, thank you, Thank you so much, Lisa. I thoroughly

856
00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:22.440
enjoyed our conversation. It was wonderful. And that's the beauty

857
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:26.079
of these conversations. We can bring so much for our

858
00:42:26.119 --> 00:42:31.760
audience and make their lives better. So I'm sure that

859
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:38.960
whoever's watching it, do get Lisa's book because it's going

860
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:41.440
to help you communicate better.

861
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.800
And who knows, you might find it to use it

862
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:47.079
even in your relationships where like you may not be

863
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:48.199
having a.

864
00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:52.199
Conversation here's me and here's you, and here's what we're

865
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:54.880
arguing about. You know what. I haven't tried it, but

866
00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:55.639
maybe I should.

867
00:42:56.280 --> 00:42:59.519
Yeah, there's something ideas that are already percolating in my head,

868
00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:02.400
like very could be used. It could be with amongst.

869
00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:05.400
Children or well I think children would I have not

870
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:07.519
used this with children. I don't have children of my own,

871
00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:10.000
but if I did, I would definitely use this with

872
00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:14.000
children because they love this sort of thing and they're

873
00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:15.719
so creative, and they'd be like, well, what if we

874
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:17.599
put this over here and that over there. It's like, well,

875
00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:20.679
we could do that, and then you know you're acknowledging

876
00:43:20.760 --> 00:43:23.639
their contribution and it's no longer a fight. Now, it's

877
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:28.519
a collaboration. Now, it's a design thinking session. So it's Yeah,

878
00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:30.360
I would definitely try this with kids.

879
00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:33.159
Yeah. So there are so many different possibilities.

880
00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:37.760
Take it, run with it, enjoy it, and thank you

881
00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:43.719
wonderful audience for joining us and letting us know how

882
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:47.280
we can serve you and support you so that we

883
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:51.000
can bring guests like Lisa. Thank you Lisa for joining

884
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:55.159
us and help you live the life you deserve. Not

885
00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:59.400
only that, but be joyous and be successful and be thriving.

886
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:02.840
So do let us know, and thank you one for

887
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:06.559
making this technically possible. Do well and take care until

888
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:07.119
next time.

889
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:10.559
Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence. With your

890
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:13.199
host v Park, we hope you have learned more about

891
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:15.840
how to start living the life you want. Each week

892
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:18.920
on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who've

893
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:23.119
experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships.

894
00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:26.840
During Beyond Confidence, Vpark shares what happened to her when

895
00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:29.320
she stepped out of her comfort zone to work directly

896
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:32.440
with people across the globe. She not only coaches people

897
00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:35.920
how to form hard connections, but also transform relationships to

898
00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:39.440
mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the life

899
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:41.760
they want. If you are ready to live the life

900
00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:45.559
you want and leverage your strengths, learn more at www

901
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:49.239
dot dvpark dot com and you can connect with vat

902
00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:53.159
contact at dvpark dot com. We look forward to you're

903
00:44:53.239 --> 00:45:00.960
joining us next week