Jan. 6, 2026

Why Being Compassionate Isn’t Enough to Be a Great Leader

Why Being Compassionate Isn’t Enough to Be a Great Leader
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In this episode of Beyond Confidence, you’re getting one of those conversations that changes how you think about leadership, communication, and connection.
We’re talking about the moments leaders miss every day, not because they don’t care, but because they were never trained to slow down and speak empathically.

Beyond Confidence is broadcast live Tuesdays at 10AM ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Beyond Confidence TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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This is Beyond Confidence with your host w Park. Do

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you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you

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want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional,

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and financial goals? Well? Coming up on dvparks Beyond Confidence,

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you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers

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who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and

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Moving your career business forward does not have to happen

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at the expense of your personal or family life or

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vice versa. Learn more at www dot divopork dot com

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and you can connect with div ants Contact Dants divpark

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dot com. This is beyond confidence and now here's your host,

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div Park.

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Good morning listeners, and there's so many things happening around

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the world today, it's it's important to kind of think

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about how can we build those empedthetic connections with people,

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and that's what we're going to be talking about. Welcome

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our wonderful guest, doctor Chantell Lareo.

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Good morning Daria.

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How are you fantastic? How are you fine?

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Thank you glad to be here.

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Thank you absolutely so. Tell me if you recall a

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moment from your childhood or youth when a positive mark

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happened for you, like whether it was a person or

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a moment.

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Now, I think my grandmother was I was very close

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with her and growing up up. She she used to

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come visit us every weekend. We lived like an hour away,

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and she would she would stay in my room and

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we would just talk all night. And she was really

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a strong influence on me because she was a very

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strong woman. I think we learned so much from my grandparents.

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She lived through the depression, she quit school so that

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she could help raise her other six siblings. You know,

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just amazing, and I think about the hard times that

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I've gone through, I always think about what she went

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through and what she was able to accomplish in her life,

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and I think that that always I carried that I

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carried with me everywhere.

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Yeah, that's that's powerful. So you had a very strong

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role model as you were going up and as you

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grew up. Did you have any other influences that influenced

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the choice of career you made.

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Yeah, my uncle. My uncle was a pediatrist as well.

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You know, I really struggled with what I wanted to

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do specifically I wanted to you know, I knew I

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wanted something with the sciences, and I watched how he

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cared for the elderly and he was just so gentle

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and he meant so much to his patients. So I

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spent some time with him in his office and it

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was that connection that I saw him making with the patients.

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And it was something about pedietary that you actually do

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a lot of talking while you're doing your work, and

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I really like that, and I think that was probably

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what solidified for me that that was the specific field

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I wanted to go into.

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So then did you go into po dietary.

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I did. I did so. I was a pediatress for

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thirty years, and toward the last ten of those years,

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I started focusing on coaching other physicians of all specialties

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in their communications style. I did a lot of training

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and I had a lot of coaching myself to help

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teach me how to do that, and that just became

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the thing that got me up in the morning. Wanted

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to work with other physicians and help them make those

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connections with their patients.

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And so many times what happens is that when we

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are talking about the corporate world, we think about the

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big organizations, and yet we'd kind of tend to overlook

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the whole health sector. It's hospitals over there. You know,

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so many times people especially er whether it's emergency room

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or whether it is any hospitals. They're already under so

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much pressure. I mean, our healthcare workers go through so

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much and yet for them it may be the next patient.

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But for the patient, regardless wherever they are, especially with

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the physical or any other ailments they're coming in with,

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there is that whole mental aspect. So, especially with the

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busy healthcare professional and doctors, what is the false thing

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that you would say that they need to keep in mind.

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So I think, I think we have to just acknowledge

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the fact that there is a limited time. We're not

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going to get more time with our patients than what

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we feel we need. It's always going to be less

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than what we think. So we have to make that

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period of time. We have to focus on connection before

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we do anything else. And I say that very seriously,

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because if a patient doesn't trust you, then everything else

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you tell them may not be worth anything to them.

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So you have to focus that time on building trust.

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And what I do is I teach how to do

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it very quickly, because you only have that small period

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of time. So teaching all healthcare professionals, not just physicians.

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I work with many healthcare professionals. I teach them how

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to make those moments count. Work on that initially, work

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on building trust immediately in your language, your nonverbal gestures,

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and then focus on the medical piece because now you've

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built some trust with them.

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So how let's say, and this can be applicable to

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any person.

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That's correct. And yes, it's one of the things that

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I've learned, especially in writing my book, I learned that

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more people were interested in this and just those in healthcare,

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and it's about how do you make a connection using

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your language, And the most powerful way to make connections

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is through intentional empathy. And what I mean by that

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is really taking their perspective and try to acknowledge whatever

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emotion you see happening, or you can assume is happening.

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And I say assume, because it's okay to acknowledge that

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you don't necessarily know what's going on, but it seems

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like or it sounds like. And so that's the kind

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of language that I recommend. So for example, let's say

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you had tell me a complaint that you had, did

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you any complaint at all?

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Okay, so one complaint, well, I wouldn't. Well, let's say,

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if you kind of complaint is that so many times

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you know you're walking down the street. It's not even

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a complaint, it's more of an observation. People may not

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smile back, or people are so busy in their own lives,

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or another thing that I've seen, not only with clients,

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but within the family itself, that people are on phones

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together and not interacting as much.

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I'm sure that's very disheartening for you. Somebody who who

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really feels strongly about those greetings and those connections with people.

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Well, no, you know, I believe to meet people where

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they're at, and the whole idea is that you do

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each his own and it's important to have that empathy

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and understanding that they may be busy or occupied in

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something else.

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Yeah, so you're able to look beyond what you say

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emotional intelligence, right, You're able to look beyond what you see.

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And when someone tells me something's going on with them,

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I try to understand what's going on with So I will

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say it sounds like you're going through this, and then

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I wait and have them tell me what's really going

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which you just did. So I said that must be

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disheartening for you. But then you said, well, actually, and

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then you showed me your emotional intelligence, so you kind

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of course corrected that for me. But because I made

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that gesture to say it sounds like that's what's going

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on with you, I'm connecting with you. I'm trying to

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know what's going on with you. And so even if

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I'm wrong, which I was, I was wrong, it wasn't

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disheartening for you, or maybe it was a little bit right.

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Either way, it's that trying to do that that creates

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the connection, as opposed to I understand if you just

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tell someone I understand, it's kind of an assumption, and

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people tell to say no, you really don't, especially if

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they're up about something. You know, we always going to

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say I understand. I understand. That doesn't work very well

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with people because they get a little put out that

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you are assuming their emotions. So I try to say

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it sounds like or it must be, and at least

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that person knows that I'm trying to connect with them

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and know what's going on with them.

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So what about situations where people are just kind of

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meeting each other for the first time, How can you

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go ahead and develop that connection Because you're not always

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going to be in a position there, you're just kind of, like,

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you know, being there as a coach or consultant or

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as a leader checking in with the other person. It

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could be in a different setting. So what would be

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that full step exactly?

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And I always say in healthcare, we have an advantage

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because people are coming in with a complaint no matter what,

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right when they first come in, we always have something

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we can focus on empathizing with. But remembering those nonverbal

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gestures Dyll Connergiy talked about these years back in the

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nineteen thirties, making eye contact therapeutic touch we call it

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in healthcare, we call it therapeutic touch. And knowing that

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sometimes a hand on the shoulder or shaking a hand,

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we do that for a reason because that creates a

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physical connection, and that of course also creates it works

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with your language and the nonverbal and the verbal connections together.

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Saying a really important thing again, this is a Dale

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Carnegie thing, was saying people's names back to them. If

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you're trying to create a connection, people love to hear

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their names. It says you care enough about me to

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say my name. And for those of you who have

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been in the situation where you've forgotten someone's name, it

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is so awkward when you forget someone's name because you

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recognize that. The awkwardness because you're not able to connect

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as much because you're not saying the name. So you

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say hey when someone just says hey to you, You're

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just not feeling it. It's kind of like when you

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say when you walk on the street or you tell

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someone hello. I remember in school we used to when

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we're changing classes. We were all seeing all or the

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people that we made, whether it's friends or acquaintances. We

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see all the other students and some would say hey,

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but some would say hi, Chantelle, and it was different.

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It was different when someone said your name because they

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knew it number one and number two, they care enough

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to say it and make that little bit of a connection.

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So those are just the basics of making eye contact

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or therapeutic touch and saying someone's name back to them

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when you first, when you first are introduced to someone,

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when they say their name to you, say it immediately

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back to them. So Hi, this is Hi Chantell, this

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is this is Jerry, Hi, Jerry, nice to meet you.

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Saying the name back to them, because it just it's

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anything you can do in that first few seconds matters.

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M So what you're saying is and that is so

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true because sometimes you walk in a room and nobody

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has done anything to you. You look around, you take

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a look and you see someone and you either like, oh,

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that person is so wonderful and they have done nothing,

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and then it could be their body posture, their body language,

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and there could be someone you're like, hmm, you just

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don't like them, or it's like there's something about them.

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That puts you off, So tell us about the body

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senses also that you talk about.

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Yeah, so you're right, some people just have that. We

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notice that with physicians too, Some of them just have it.

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You know, they could spend three minutes with the patient

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and their patients love them, and others could sit in

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there for forty minutes and they don't have that same connection.

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So there really are techniques that they're using, whether they're

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aware of them and doing them intentionally or if they're

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just natural. There are techniques that matter. So some of

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the other things are number one, sitting down versus standing up,

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and it depends on the social situation. But for example,

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you notice in podcasts we're sitting down. When I give

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a lecture, I stand up. But if I'm sitting, if

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I'm wanting to talk to you and make a connection,

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sitting down says I have time for you. And so

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we bring that up to our physicians too. You know,

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patients think that you're in a rush when you're standing up,

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So just that alone, sitting down matters. Leaning in versus

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leaning out, and there are times when it's appropriate to

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do either one. Now you think about that when you

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lean back a little bit, it kind of says, again,

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I have time, I'm relaxed. When you're really leaning in,

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when someone's telling you something that they're really upset about

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or they're emotional, leaning in says I really care and

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I'm here to help you. So you're making you know

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as you're doing these things. It's not like one is

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good or bad, but they send a message. So think

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about what message I'm sending. Probably one of the most

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important techniques I tell people to pay attention to is

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their arms in their hands, because if you sit like this,

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the closed off it's a sense of strong message, a

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very negative strong message. It says I really don't have

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time for you. I don't care. I'm smarter than you.

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There was a whole lot of things people could pick

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up from this. Whether you mean to or not, this

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may be comfortable. I actually work with a physician that

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had his patient experience scores are very low, and no

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one could figure out why they called me because they said,

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you know, he's a really nice guy and we can't

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figure out what's going on. Why his score so low.

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And I went in there and I said, you know,

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if I closed my eyes and listened to you, it's

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a beautiful conversation, Your communication is beautiful, but you're standing

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like this is the entire dog. And so his patients

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felt very put out by that, and that, you know,

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that was the That was the only difference that we

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made to help them with his connection. So just being

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aware of your body language, being having an open body

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language rather than a closed off body language. The other

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thing is, and this is something I learned from an

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attorney many years ago who helped train me for doing

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expert witnesses, is keeping your hands away from your mouth.

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So even like this are this, we do that, but

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actually that could show people that you're hiding something if

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you do that. If you talked about the language experts,

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they said that this can mean that you might be

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hiding something, you're not being truthful. So little things like

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that can matter. But again, hands and mouth. Just remember

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I think you kind of open, open stance.

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Now since you're talking about that, you know that's in person.

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But even medicine, and of course so much organization, even

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though we're going back to hybrid, they're still on zoom

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since post pandemic. So what would you say, are some

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zoom medicants.

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So zoom medicits number one is paying attention to where

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your camera is, and it's difficult because the closer you

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are to the camera, the more you can see. So

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right now I'm looking at you, you can see I'm

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not looking at the camera. When I'm further away, it's

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a little bit easier because you know, there's a you

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know it sort of it blends when you're further away,

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so it's not as bad. But focusing on putting the

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person you're talking to up toward the camera really makes

294
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a difference. And then uh, remembering that when you're on

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zoom and you're talking to someone, you can connect with

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them equally without the empathic gestures, but your language is

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that much more important because you can't do touch, you

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can't do shaking your hands. You only have your language.

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So you really have to focus on making sure you

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make empathic connections with people when you're just virtual. Because

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you don't have that, you lose a lot of a

302
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lot of the ability to do that, to make those

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nonverbal gestures.

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So then you talk about the bubble. Tell us a

305
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bit more about that.

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The bubble, and I talk about this in my book.

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It's that you know when you when you read the

308
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comic strips if you if you read them now or

309
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you remember reading them as a child. I remember how

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there's there's the regular, the regular circle, and then there's

311
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the one that has little bubbles underneath. Okay, the little

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bubbles underneath are what's in the back of their mind, right,

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their thoughts. They call it the bubble, the thing that's

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going on behind the scenes that you don't necessarily hear

315
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in the language, and so understanding what that thing is,

316
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the thing behind the thing is what we call it

317
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in coaching. I don't know if you've heard that expression,

318
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the thing behind the thing, getting people to be aware

319
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of what's really going on, what's behind that. And that's

320
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so in order to show empathy for someone, you really

321
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have to listen and use all your senses to understand,

322
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sometimes reading their facial expressions, hearing little words that they

323
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say when they repeat themselves. When someone says something more

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than once, that's something they're telling what's in their bubble.

325
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It's because maybe you missed it the first time, and

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now they want to make sure that you know what's

327
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really going to own them. So I have several examples

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in my book about how that happens. But I will

329
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get I'll give one example of what finding the bubble

330
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we call it. We have to find the bubble. So,

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for example, someone comes in and says, I'm really distraught

332
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because this happened. Well, then they've just told you what

333
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their book was. That's easy. But then there's others that

334
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will say something like, for example, well I hurt my

335
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foot because I'm moving in the process of moving, and

336
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so you know it's I stumbled whatever, and it happened.

337
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This thing happened. And then you start going on and

338
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asking them questions about the injury, and then they say again, well,

339
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I really can't stay off my foot because you know

340
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I'm moving now, you know this is the bubble. This

341
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is what you're missing. Why don't they mention that pice?

342
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There's something what you know? So it turns out their

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whole life is turned upside down because they're in the process.

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I'm moving right now. That's an important thing to talk

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with someone about, even though they're here for something for

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a foot injury, whatever it might be. That's the thing

347
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that they really need to let you know exactly, this

348
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is what's going on in my life right now. Now

349
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we can talk about this other thing. So listening for

350
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those little cues, and one of them is repeating themselves

351
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or saying it. You know, they repeat it. It's a

352
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little louder giving details. People don't say things for no reason,

353
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like oh, we just came back from a trip because

354
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my son graduated from Harvard with honors, you know, and

355
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then then you move on and say, oh, okay, we'll

356
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glad you're back. No. No, they want you to know that

357
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their son just graduated from Harvard with honors. So to

358
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say something like you must be so proud is acknowledging

359
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that emotion of pride. They didn't say that for no reason.

360
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It wasn't about them coming back from a trip. They

361
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wanted you to know something they were proud about.

362
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And then, well, that is very true looking for the iceberg,

363
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right that what they say in the iceberg theory that

364
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what appears on the surface is way different and it

365
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is hiding behind it. There's usually like a meaning or

366
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underlying cause or something like that. So given that, especially

367
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what happens in the professional area so far, you know,

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we have been conditioned about hiding our emotions. So a

369
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lot of times, you know, people ask like, okay, you're

370
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talking about being transparent, being authentic. So when do you

371
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draw the line about, like you know, where you're sharing

372
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emotions and where you bring that balance to it.

373
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Yeah, I appreciate that question because I have a hold

374
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chapter of hiding our emotions, because that's kind of what

375
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we were taught professionally, at least in my in my field,

376
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we're taught to hide our elations, right at least when

377
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things are really rough and you know, you don't want

378
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to judge people, and that's fair, you really don't. I mean,

379
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people are telling you some really some things you might

380
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judge them for, but we're taught not to do that.

381
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We have to be very even keel. And that's why

382
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when someone tells us something that they're upset about, if

383
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we maintain that hiding our emotions, we can come across

384
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as sterile. We can come across as we just don't care.

385
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And that's not the case. It's just a matter of

386
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teaching people when, like you said, how do you draw

387
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that line? And so that's why I kind of teach

388
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those empathic responses rather than you don't necessarily have to

389
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cry when someone cries, but acknowledging what they're going for

390
00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:40.480
them and saying this must be very difficult for you,

391
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or I can tell what this is doing to you

392
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:45.240
till I can tell this is really upsetting you. That

393
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.680
kind of thing. It doesn't mean that you have to

394
00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:51.799
carry those emotions with you. You know, there's something in

395
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:55.279
medicine they call compassion fatigue. It turns out that that's

396
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a fallacy, that it really isn't compassion fatigue. And we

397
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:03.680
found through the literature is that when you show compassion,

398
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.839
you actually fill your cup too. When you take a

399
00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:11.559
minute to connect to someone, guess what happens, You fill

400
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.680
your own cup. So it's okay to do that. It's

401
00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:18.480
okay to extend yourself a little bit. It doesn't mean

402
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:21.480
you have to absorb the emotion, but you can certainly

403
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:25.359
acknowledge it and share that moment with the person. And

404
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:30.279
that brings me to another point about compassion and empathy.

405
00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:32.079
I spend a lot of time teaching people to be

406
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:35.000
impacted because it's not our default. And I don't just

407
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:38.279
mean physicians, I mean as people. It is not our default.

408
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:41.319
When people tell us something that's going on with them,

409
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:46.839
about eighty percent of the time we respond with what's

410
00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:50.079
going on with ourselves? You know, yeah, I know, I've

411
00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:55.680
been through that whatever or what happens in medicine is

412
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:59.720
we tend to respond with fixing. And so if you're

413
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.039
in an industry where you fix people, you know, if

414
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.680
you're say you're a plumber and you're going to fix things,

415
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:06.720
you know, whatever it might be, where you're the one

416
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.160
who gives advice, you help, then your initial response is

417
00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:11.799
going to be, well, let me see I can do

418
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:16.920
something about that gives me really miss opportunities to make

419
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:19.960
connections when you do that, And this is where I

420
00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:23.960
work the most with physicians on is before you get

421
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.559
to that, let me fix, you show empathy. And fixing

422
00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:30.519
is compassion. It's a good thing you want to fix

423
00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.119
and you want to help them. But before you do that,

424
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:38.119
make that empathic connection. The example of that, let's say

425
00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:39.960
you what to tell me, I was up all night

426
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:43.480
in pain with my neck. Well, let's say you did

427
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:45.720
like this. That was okay, you get the face, you

428
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.359
get the hands. I was up all night in pain

429
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.160
with my neck. That's my bubble, right, I was unmiserable.

430
00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.039
And most physicians will respond with, well, give me a

431
00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:58.039
number on a scale of one to tennis. It's sharp adult,

432
00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:00.160
does it radiate down your arm, tell me more at

433
00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:04.039
the pain, and that's fine because they're they're being compassionate.

434
00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:05.960
They're working it up so they can then help the

435
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:09.519
person diagnosed in treat But before they do that, if

436
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:16.119
they say you must be exhausted, yeah, doc, I really am, Well,

437
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:17.720
tell me more about that pain. How bad is it

438
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:19.640
on a scale of one to ten? So I just

439
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:24.640
have them insert one moment of connection mm hm. And

440
00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:27.240
you know, I tell them you can when you've when

441
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:31.359
you've connected with someone, there's actually a response you will see,

442
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:34.720
and it's fairly distinctive when you know you made a connection.

443
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:38.440
So if I say, if I say you must be

444
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:42.200
you must be miserable, and you go, yeah, doc, I

445
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.799
really am, it's sort of a little head tilt and

446
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:48.680
an affirmation like yeah, when you see that. I always

447
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.000
tell people pause after you an empathic response because you

448
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:55.000
want to pause and see the connection. You wait and

449
00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.279
you see him do that. That's how you know you connected.

450
00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:00.640
They made that moment the kind of till they right,

451
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:01.680
if you get me.

452
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:06.759
Yeah. Now you talked about sounds like that was one

453
00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:09.400
of the phrases you mentioned that you know, it's a

454
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.440
good one to use rather than I understand. Are there

455
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:15.480
any other phrases that people can use.

456
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:22.119
It must be it must be difficult for you, must

457
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:25.400
be seems like sounds like it must be, so.

458
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:29.440
It must usually has a negative connotation. People don't, so

459
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:31.480
tell me a little bit more about that and depth.

460
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:34.519
Yeah, you're right. A lot of these things you have

461
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:39.359
to think of them contextually, right, depending the situation, Like

462
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:43.000
you must be so proud you know that, or that

463
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:44.720
must be very disheartened, like I told you that must

464
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:49.119
be very disheartening, and again I was wrong, and that happens.

465
00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:53.279
So you're taking a little bit of a chance by

466
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:58.160
doing it. But it's okay because the person understands that

467
00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:00.079
you were just trying to know what's going through and

468
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:01.359
then they can kind of correct you. I'll tell you

469
00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:02.880
what I do tell people to be careful about that

470
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.039
is so underestimate someone's misery And what do you mean

471
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:09.720
by that? As help always go to the superlative and

472
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:14.079
don't underestimate? So what do I mean by that? If

473
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:18.480
someone so for example, we use scales pain scale? Was

474
00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:20.160
there a scale the.

475
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.880
Doctor's offices nowadays? I go, like, you know, you don't

476
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:26.680
even see the doctor, like you know, usually you have

477
00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:29.839
the assistant kind of come in and they'll they go

478
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.480
through the whole process and they're saying like, okay, if

479
00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:36.319
you have a pain, here's the chart. And then they

480
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:38.920
give you like all the smiley faces, like I've got

481
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.680
this one doctor that I go to from like angry

482
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.039
face to like crunch face, Like they'll kind of show

483
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.400
you and tell you like when you fall off that scale.

484
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:51.240
And it's funny because everybody's different, right, I mean, my

485
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:53.920
eight might be someone else's three. You know, who knows?

486
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:57.880
It doesn't more for a really to compare to last time?

487
00:26:57.920 --> 00:26:58.000
Right?

488
00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:01.720
Is it any better? But you know, if someone says

489
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:04.559
my pain is a six, I'm not going to say, oh,

490
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:07.640
it sounds like you're a little uncomfortable, because there's a

491
00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:10.480
good chance you're going to say, no, I'm miserable. So

492
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:15.000
I always say, sounds miserable, okay, And it's okay for

493
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:17.279
them to say, well, actually I'm pretty tough. Then you

494
00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:20.640
haven't insulted them or minimized their misiments, you know what

495
00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:24.599
I'm saying. So no matter what I always say, go

496
00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:27.000
to the So if I tell you I haven't eaten

497
00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:30.680
since yesterday, you don't want to say you must be

498
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:33.440
a little hungry, you say, oh, you must be starving here.

499
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:35.240
You must be fair master, you know you want to

500
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:38.359
really go to the superlative or haven't slept all night?

501
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:41.359
You must be exhausted. Not you must be a little tired,

502
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.839
you know what I mean. So, so making sure that

503
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:48.400
that when you're doing your you're trying to guess what

504
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:50.000
someone's going on with always kind of go to the

505
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:53.519
superlative in most cases so that you don't insult them.

506
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:56.640
Yeah, and as you mentioned that, at the end of

507
00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:58.319
the day, it kind of comes in, you know what

508
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:01.680
you're sharing that techniques, and then people have to use

509
00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:05.640
their own emotional intelligence to see like what's appropriate in

510
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:08.799
the given moment, contextual correct.

511
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:14.880
I tell you, I always give homework when I give

512
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:19.200
these when I give lectures or I give trainings for

513
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:22.200
the physicians, and I tell them that their homework is

514
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:25.559
to at the end of the day, if they live

515
00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:27.599
with someone, or even if they want to just make

516
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:30.359
a phone call to a friend, but when they come home,

517
00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:33.880
ask them about their day. Because a lot of us

518
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:35.759
are guilty of this, And when they tell you about

519
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:39.440
their struggles instead of trying to fix them, which is

520
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:42.160
what our default is our default is, well, you shouldn't

521
00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:44.400
let people talk to you like that, or next time,

522
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:45.960
this is what you should do. You know, we wouldn't

523
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:49.160
give them all the shitters, but to just say I'm sorry,

524
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:53.000
I was really frustrating. Huh, And look for the little

525
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:55.319
head tilt in the air and watch the connection that

526
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:57.559
you've made with them and the difference that it feels

527
00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:01.079
when you listen to them and you acknowledge what they're

528
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:04.160
going through. It's all the difference in the world in

529
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:06.880
a relationship. Trust is at the heart of every relationship.

530
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:11.039
So making those connections to build trust really does matter

531
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.039
no matter what the relationship, because doctor, patient or spousal relationship,

532
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:15.839
whatever it might be.

533
00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:20.960
Absolutely and trust, as you mentioned, you know, that is

534
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:26.400
at the core of anything because without trust and trust

535
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:28.680
is so fragile that once it breaks, it's just kind

536
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:31.759
of hard to rebuild. There's it's always going to be

537
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:36.920
lined with the layer of mistrust somewhere. So that's that's

538
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.920
a good point, you know, it's a good segue what happens.

539
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.839
Let's say you have a fragmented relationship, how do you

540
00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:43.799
build that trust back?

541
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.279
So first you have to figure out what builds trusts.

542
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:51.119
So everyone's a little bit different with what builds trust.

543
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.599
We have our own history, we have our own background.

544
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:56.960
So you know, if you were if you were damaged

545
00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:59.880
early on in life for a specific reason, as you know,

546
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:02.839
someone cheated on you, whatever that might be, then that's

547
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:04.960
probably going to be the thing that they look for

548
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:08.440
that that person's going to look for for trusts. Whether

549
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:11.319
it's building trust or or not trusting someone, it's going

550
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:14.680
to be related to that. So understanding what what it

551
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:18.039
is that breaks relationships for that person, understand what builds

552
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:21.359
relationships for that person is very important. Or talked with

553
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:23.319
large groups of people all go around the room and

554
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:25.359
say what for you build trust? And you would be

555
00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:29.319
amazed at the different number of different answers that I get.

556
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:31.319
Most of the time it's they do what they say

557
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:34.640
they're going to do. So for that person, you want

558
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:36.599
to make sure that you always do what you say

559
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:38.319
you're going to do, and you know, don't don't make

560
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:40.279
promises that you know, well you're not sure you can

561
00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:42.079
keep make sure if I say this, I've got to

562
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:44.559
do it, because that's what builds trust for that person.

563
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:47.160
So you know, kind of figuring out what it is

564
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:50.759
for some people's transparency, it's you know, making sure you

565
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:52.720
open up to that person because they don't trust anyone

566
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:55.359
that doesn't open up to them, you know that that

567
00:30:55.480 --> 00:31:00.079
kind of thing. So I don't think that it's I

568
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:01.839
don't think there's out of line in most cases to

569
00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:04.599
ask people what you know, what do you builds trust?

570
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:07.039
And if it's someone that you've broken their trust, would

571
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:08.920
I would talk more about that with them?

572
00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:11.319
You know, yeah, about.

573
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:14.160
That that broke your trust? What else do you build trust?

574
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:16.680
Because I'll learn it back and have a really long

575
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:18.279
conversation about what do I need to do?

576
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:25.160
Yeah? And it is it is like you said, what

577
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:29.319
is it that I can do? You're not blaming the

578
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:34.559
other person, you are not putting them under any pressure.

579
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:38.200
What you're sharing is that you're coming with that intentional

580
00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:41.559
goes back to when we talked about intentional empathy, so

581
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:46.720
it's also like intentional trust building. So as we talk

582
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:50.359
about this, would you say, like, you know, when somebody

583
00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.160
is going out there to build that empathy connection, do

584
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:58.359
you have any steps that people can immediately apply as

585
00:31:58.400 --> 00:31:59.160
they're listening to this.

586
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.799
Yeah, I think start with start with the non rubble,

587
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:07.519
start with me that contacted saying their name. And I

588
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:11.000
do think that touch is important. Of course, we always

589
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:14.200
have to be careful who, when we why, and how

590
00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:18.319
we touch because it can be rude. So we're always

591
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:21.880
careful about that, but in a professional and you know,

592
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:25.200
us using your judgment on that on how to touch.

593
00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:27.359
But I think it's very important that we keep that

594
00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:30.440
in mind, that that builds a connection for people. Maybe

595
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:32.039
sometimes you stay hand on the shoulder, whatever, it's a

596
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:36.480
safe place to touch, and then look for a way

597
00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:38.480
to show empathy. So we kind of talked about it.

598
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:40.799
I was saying that in healthcare we have easy because

599
00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:44.319
because people are coming in with the complaint, but you'll

600
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:47.680
be surprised at how you can connect with someone over

601
00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:51.119
little things like you know, I had a hard time

602
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:54.480
finding a place to part because I had to go

603
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:57.519
up three I had to go up three levels of

604
00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:01.160
how frustrating, huh. You know, just just something like that.

605
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:07.799
Look for that opportunity, find out their bubble, which very

606
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:10.160
often they just come out and say. Sometimes you have

607
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:12.680
to read their faces. Sometimes you have to read their

608
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:18.559
emotions or their mannerisms, and then look for opportunities to

609
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:23.119
do that, because that matters. That builds that connection. Helping

610
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:27.200
them doesn't necessarily do that, believe it or not. It's

611
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:32.240
a different kind of relationship. So again with you know, healthcare,

612
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:34.640
we're helpers, right, We're going to fix things for people.

613
00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:37.559
It tends to have an upward relationship. I look up

614
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:41.079
to you because you took care of me, you know,

615
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:43.400
And that's okay, that's, you know, a good relationship to

616
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:46.480
take care of me. But if I if I'll trust

617
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:48.119
you to take care of me. But if I want

618
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:51.640
to trust you as a person, as a as a friend,

619
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:56.640
as a colleague, as just person to person, you really

620
00:33:56.680 --> 00:33:58.599
need to do the empathy. You need to look for

621
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:01.920
something in emotion that they're feeling. I'll tell you the

622
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:03.720
most positive way to do it, without even saying it

623
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:07.960
must be is to read their face. You look quite

624
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:11.440
happy today, you look very pleasant today. It's great to

625
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:15.880
see you look very pleasant today, that you can see

626
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:19.280
the reaction in someone's face once they read their face.

627
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:24.039
And again, you can be wrong, and that's okay as

628
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:25.400
long as you don't say you look like a grow

629
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:29.960
up today. But you can't say it looks like something's

630
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:33.559
bothering you, it looks like struggling to say you're okay,

631
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:38.360
and people really appreciate that you took the time to

632
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:42.079
look at those subtleties of their face to make that connection.

633
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:48.159
Yeah, and what you're driving ad is that don't go

634
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:53.440
for absolutes. Looks like it sounds like. So there's always

635
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:57.159
a very clear demorocation in there that you're not assuming,

636
00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:01.639
You're not making any definitive statement, You are just kind

637
00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:05.800
of being curious and checking in. So that's very powerful.

638
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:09.280
So if you want to share one thing with the

639
00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:14.239
listeners and with our audience that they could implement strade away,

640
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:15.840
what might that be?

641
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:21.480
I would say the homework that I mentioned. If you

642
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:24.440
try that once with the person at home and you

643
00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:28.480
see the reaction that you get, then start looking for

644
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:33.320
opportunities to use that throughout your day in your conversations,

645
00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:36.800
to connect with everybody, even in an elevator talking with

646
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:41.199
someone and watch the reaction, you know, saying things like that,

647
00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:43.840
looks like you're having a good day today because you

648
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:47.440
see them smiling, you know, And watch the reaction that

649
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:50.039
people give you, and you'll see that it does make

650
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:53.280
a difference, not only for them but for you. Remember,

651
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:55.880
when you connect with someone else, you kind of fill

652
00:35:55.960 --> 00:35:58.360
your own cup, and you know that's a good thing

653
00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:03.079
that you feel that the connection both ways. Again, a

654
00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:06.880
whole chapter on that, that feeling it both ways, what

655
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.519
it does for you. And one of the things that

656
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:12.880
from a medical standpoint, I talk about when we were

657
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:16.719
in Hurricane Katrina and we were all scattered across the

658
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:22.199
state and other states. I felt that while patients were

659
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:25.400
in fear from this and their doctor, as a physician,

660
00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:29.119
I felt this emptiness of my patients. I couldn't get

661
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:31.920
to my patients. I think it was all with my patients.

662
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:35.360
It is a two way street, you know, this relationship

663
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:38.639
for two way street. So when we're talking about making

664
00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:41.719
these attempts to connect with people, it's not just something

665
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:45.119
for them, it's something for your relationship for both of you.

666
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:49.119
Absolutely, And I've been fortunate to have a couple of

667
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:52.400
doctors in my life. You know that I've been seeing

668
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:56.639
for like gosh, thirteen fourteen years and have such a

669
00:36:56.639 --> 00:37:00.920
good relationship that usually even though I might be or something,

670
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:04.400
I look forward to seeing them. And then that talks

671
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:07.519
about the connection. So tell us some more about your

672
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:10.480
book and tell us how people can connect with you.

673
00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:15.079
And I would like to share sure.

674
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:17.880
So I started this work when I was working on

675
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:24.679
Auctra Health System back in twenty eighteen something like that.

676
00:37:26.440 --> 00:37:29.480
I worked there for twelve years and I became their

677
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.840
medical director of Patient Experience. And some physicians do this

678
00:37:32.920 --> 00:37:36.119
kind of work, and so I was discovering all these

679
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:38.840
little little things. And I have a whole lot more

680
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:43.440
tips in there too. I have my top ten Golden

681
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:45.719
Rules of empathy. You know, a lot of little things,

682
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:48.039
some of the things we've talked about, but all those

683
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:50.199
were derived from that work that I did with for

684
00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:53.079
ten years, watching that relationship with the physician and the

685
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:59.880
patient and coaching them, giving them feedback. And like I said, afterwards,

686
00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:02.960
I realized that this was something that we could be

687
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:05.840
doing at home, and other people were interested in too.

688
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:09.000
So I decided to publish the book on it. And

689
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:13.320
I've been working on it just very slowly, over a

690
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:15.840
course of like four years. Just when things will come

691
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.559
to mind, I would put it down, and so I

692
00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:20.559
finally I finally said, I'm gonna put it all together.

693
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:26.599
I've got an editor and put it into print and

694
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:29.880
you know Amazon. Now it's available on Amazon. I also

695
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:32.920
have a website my book. Some of me just really

696
00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:35.199
clarify too. It's called I Get You, I Got you,

697
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.000
And the difference there, I get you is what we've

698
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:41.480
been talking about empathy. I get you, I got you.

699
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:46.800
That a different relationship. The compassion's helping someone. I got you.

700
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:49.800
I'm taking care of you, and it's a little bit different.

701
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:52.679
It's a good relationship. But if you skip that I

702
00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:55.440
get you, you don't make the connection. So that's why

703
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:57.599
I put it in there, I get you. I Got

704
00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:00.840
you the secret to creating an impactic connection with every

705
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:04.400
patient every time. But it's a very easy to read.

706
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:08.000
Anyone even out of healthcare will enjoy it, and they've

707
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:09.760
told me that they really enjoy reading it even though

708
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:13.880
they're not he I do have a website. It's my

709
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:19.679
full name without spaces after chantellelurio dot com. And yeah, oh,

710
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:21.599
I see you have a scroll in there. Thank you

711
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:25.039
very much. So, yeah you can. That has a link

712
00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:26.519
to the Amazon site to buy it.

713
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:31.559
Yeah, well, thank you Chantell for sharing your thoughts and

714
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:37.480
your experiences. And the way I experience things is you know,

715
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:41.840
it's so beautiful to have these conversations because I'm moarning

716
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:45.840
while I'm sharing the wisdom of so many years that

717
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:49.480
you bring with our audience. So thank you for joining us.

718
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:51.920
Thank you Avia, I appreciate it.

719
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:57.320
I've enjoyed it very much, absolutely, and thank you wonderful

720
00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.320
audience because without you, the show would not be possible.

721
00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:04.639
And I want to wish you a very happy New

722
00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:07.559
Year and want to leave you with one thing to

723
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:14.000
keep in mind. Remember you don't want just destination goals.

724
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:19.679
You want on goals that are approachable and that leave

725
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:24.639
room for failure. So definitely reach out to us. Let

726
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:27.599
us know how we can support you in twenty twenty

727
00:40:27.639 --> 00:40:32.079
stakes to make it your best year ever yet. And

728
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:36.199
thank you on a tech Genius for making the show possible.

729
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:37.719
Be well and take care.

730
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:42.239
Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence. With your

731
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:44.599
host d V Park, we hope you have learned more

732
00:40:44.599 --> 00:40:47.280
about how to start living the life you want. Each

733
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:50.239
week on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people

734
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:53.400
who have experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building

735
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:58.000
meaningful relationships. During Beyond Confidence, v Park shares what happened

736
00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:00.000
to her when she stepped out of her comfort zone

737
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.079
to work directly with people across the globe. She not

738
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:06.199
only coaches people how to form hard connections, but also

739
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:10.400
transform relationships to mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to

740
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:12.880
live the life they want. If you are ready to

741
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.679
live the life you want and leverage your strengths, learn

742
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:20.199
more at www dotwpark dot com and you can connect

743
00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:24.599
with vat contact at dvpark dot com. We look forward

744
00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:26.000
to you joining us next week.