HEART Over Hype: Leading Digital Change Without Losing People

0:00 The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsement for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any questions or common should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W four WN Radio. This is Beyond Confidence with your host w Park. Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional, and financial goals? Well? Coming up on dvaparks Beyond Confidence, you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers who have steps into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and are living the life they want.

0:47 You will learn how relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals. Moving your career business forward does not have to happen at the expense of your personal or family life or vice versa. Learn more at www dot divpork dot com and you can connect with Diva ants contact Dants divpark dot com. This is beyond confidence and now here's your host, div Park. Good morning listeners. It's wonderful to be here with you. It's Tuesday, and just love it. So the question to ask yourself is that, hmm, are you going to go with the hype? Are you going to go with what everybody says? Or you can step into these changing times with AI and the market and all of that going in while keeping people at the forefront and in line of sight. So that's what we are going to be talking about today.

1:49 Welcome Sherry, Thank you Debya, thanks so much for having me on your show today. I'm excited to talk with you. Yeah, it's excited to have you on this show. So, Sherry, you have a beautiful background. Share with us if you recall a moment or a person who left a positive mark on you. Sure, So, I mean, of course I would have to say my mother, but there's there's really a bigger story of the impact that she's really had in my life. So you know, my mom would always say, you know, Sherry, everybody's got problems. If you put them in the middle of a room and you had to pick out a problem, you'd probably take your own back.

2:33 But there was so right, like you know, like she always says, like people have bigger problems than you. So that's kind of how I've led my life and my career of you can always overcome whatever's in front of you. And then two and a half years ago, my husband passed away suddenly, yeah, thank you, but it was a moment. And of course the first person that I call as my mother and she says, hang up the phone. She lived a couple hours away, and she said, you know, I'll be like I'll be right there. So and the police officers were over all these things were going on, and they're like who can you call? Who can you call?

3:20 And of course I have two daughters, My daughters have friends, there are people I call, but I was like, I just have to wait for my mother. Like it was like I have to wait for my mother because she's just been that call me kind of steady. We've got this like no matter what happens in life, you can overcome it. And so here I am. You know, there's us. I think all of us in life, we go through challenges and I've and I've kind of reflected since that moment of leading people, and I do a lot of work and digit transformation. Right, we all talk about digital transformation and how it's hard, but it's really about the people and those leading people through challenges and change and and and really just being able to overcome whatever is in front of you or whatever seems difficult or challenging.

4:20 So I just want to do a gentle check in with you, Sherry. How are you and your family doing? Oh? Thank you. Everybody's doing well. It was it was a journey, as you can imagine, but but everyone's doing doing well. My younger daughter is at the University of Kentucky, and my older daughter she is she's doing well and is working at an association, so very exciting, and that's wonderful. That And here's the thing, right, we never realize like the value of the people that we have in our lives and also when they're gone. The key thing is that as you mentioned that, even though the problem seems insurmountable, but like as your mom says that, as they say that, you know, life goes on. So coming back to you, as you were growing up, did you have any specific interests that I want to do this I want to be that.

5:26 Yes, I actually did. So. Most of my work is in the association and nonprofit space, working with mission driven organizations. I didn't think I was going to be on a journey where I was running a consulting company. However, when I was fourteen, I always wanted to lead a nonprofit. I thought that's what I was going to do, and my journey's somewhat there. Obviously I'm working in that space, but I never led fully led a nonprofit, but I work with a lot of them in a different capacity, So again a little bit of a winding journey. But I always wanted to kind of do mission driven work.

6:16 And do you know what influenced your desire for that? You know, I think I grew up in a relatively small town and it just seemed like everybody took care of each other, right, it was a community. I grew up in the church, We all everybody just so I don't know if it was kind of ingrained within me or I was watching way too much Oprah. I don't know whether. Yeah, so you mentioned that you know your journey has been with nonprofit organizations and associations, So tell us a bit more about it. Like, you know which captured your heart and where did you go?

7:00 Sure? So, so when I got out of college, I actually worked at Panasonic and I was there for two years. I have an interesting story because my boss was amazing, very supportive, amazing person. I was in a male dominant environment, high pressure environment, and I kept telling him that I wanted to work for a nonprofit. And so one day I told him I was leaving to go work for a nonprofit. I went to that organization and I felt like I went ten years backwards. They had what was Some of you listeners may know what a wing system is, but I went from this PC environment to that there were all these other things. So I called my boss and I said I can't be in this job. I need to come back. And he said, come over and talk to me and my wife and we'll talk about it.

8:07 So I did. I went to his house that night and he said give it thirty days, and then after thirty days, if you still hate it, you can come back and work at Pamsonic. And I gave it thirty days, and then that was my journey. I ended up working at this association where their CEO came up to me and said, can you help us develop our website? And that was when nobody had a website. I was like, what's a website? So I went to Barnes and Nobles. I figured out what a website was, and then that was my journey and I've been in the association and nonprofit space ever since.

8:50 Yeah. So it's a powerful story. And you referred to being in Penasonic and then sharing that so that it was more that you were one of the few as a female? Is that right? Did I understand that correctly? Is that is correct? So I'm assuming that was in nineteen nineties. Yes, that was the nineteen ninety two to nineteen ninety four. I was there, So how did you navigate the journey then? And so many times what happens is that even today, actually yesterday I was having a conversation with someone, people are like, there are some professions where women are the only ones, like, you know, it's like the lonely only. Yes, So then how did you navigate the situation because even today a lot of women are talking about it?

9:46 Yes, I believe I talked to a lot of women about, you know, their own career journeys and some of their challenges. First I will say I was blessed with great bosses and mentors. When I worked at Panasonic, it was not only very male dominant, the culture was was very different. And I recall, you know, I was I was a kid. I was just happy to have a job, right. I didn't care, like I'll do whatever, you know, whatever they want me to do. And this group came in from Japan.

10:26 They were sitting in the conference room and I said, I'll go get them coffee. And my boss, the great one who said stay in the job for thirty days, even though I knew he wanted me to come back, but he said, and he was the I mean, he was very high up general manager iact. I don't recall his exact title, but he said, you're not going and getting coffee. And I was like, I'm not doing anything else. I can go downstairs and get the coffee. And he said, no, I'm going to go with you. And that was just a moment that stood out like for the rest of my career because he didn't want me, even though again I was just out of college. But to be perceived as beneath anybody, and so I don't know if that gave me the confidence then to you know, to make sure not only that I wasn't seen as less, but that other people throughout my career were seen too. You know, it was like a moment of being seen, I.

11:36 Guess absolutely, because the perception is going to be there regardless of you know, whatever you're doing, so it's important that you tailored that perception too how you want to be seen, and that's what branding is. And going back to it, you know, kudos to your boss, and this illustrates that for any success to happen, it's a partnershi it doesn't matter. It's not women versus men, it's not you know, anyone worsus anyone. It's about coming together and having that partnership together and we are stronger together. So that's such a beautiful story of the support. So then kind of coming back to your nonprofit, a lot of people end up in jobs that they think, like, you know, they're not going to like it, and so many times what happens is that they may not have the venue to go back to their old jobs. Right when people are in that situation, what would you tell them?

12:44 Well, that's a good question. What would I tell them? So, I mean, I do have a friend right now that's in she's not happy in her role, but she loves her right So, you know, focusing on the things that bring you joy in your job, whatever that might be. And sometimes you have to just look for another job, right like, sometimes you just have to, you know. I never I always tell people, you know, don't quit your job just you know, unless you're so miserable. But you don't want to just necessarily get up and leave. But find those things that you want to do. One advice though, that I do give people is when and when I left my second association job to start my consulting business, I made a list of everything I love to do and everything I hated doing. So that helped me kind of define people had me on a different path. I had always said, as I started this conversation, I always wanted to be a cell of a nonprofit, right like I wanted to be the executive director. That through my career journey, when I started putting looking at the things that I love to do. I love solving problems, I

14:14 love being in projects. Those are the things that I loved and leading an organization and managing staff and navigating a board. At that point in my life wasn't the path. So I really had to take a hard look at what I loved doing and then carved out a career around what I loved doing. I loved helping people, I loved solving problems. So I encourage people to do that, you know, really take a hard look at what you because sometimes people believe that they're on a certain path and need to go down a certain road, but they might not like those things that that job requires.

14:59 Right right, And what I'm hearing is that, you know, especially if you're in a job that's not relevant to you, that's just kind of feeling like, ah, you know, it's not bringing me joy. So when it is like that, then you know, take a look at what's right for you. So this way, when you're looking at that, Okay, so many things are going right for me, then it does not create that urgency and the emotional charge from where if you're making the decisions, those decisions that are not going to be regret proof, because decisions made out of the emotions are usually going to take you down maybe sometimes a good path, but it usually it can be something that's not that you want. So I like what you're saying, and then look.

15:54 Add to that that. As you're talking, I was just thinking that, you know, sometimes a lot of times people leave their jobs because their boss, right, m oh yeah, toxic boss. Yeah. But sometimes I'll say, look at what is the reason, like why are they behaving this way? Why are they trying to control things? What has happened to kind of give it a little different perspective that maybe there's some empathy for that person. Sometimes there's not, right, but sometimes looking at from either their perspective or trying to think of the situation a little bit differently, you know, sometimes can or having sometimes it's just having those conversations of what the challenges are, right and seeing underneath what you know, why are there's frustration or those types of things.

16:52 Yeah. Absolutely, because just recently, like you know, yesterday I was talking with a client and she had a long laundry list again her boss, and I asked her she said, oh, these are the patterns. And I said, like, okay, how many days have you observed? She said, oh, two days a week because their hybrid is only two days a week when she sees them in person. And when I asked her to investigate, I'm like, okay, go and see when is issuing up during the other three days. She said, oh yeah, he's there from seven to eight. So just the perceptions can be so so and the assumptions that we make can be misleading. Now, as you mentioned that, you know you are with nonprofit organizations, Like with a couple of nonprofit organizations, what would be your message to them, like, you know, what are the few things that they could build on, especially when somebody's thinking of starting a nonprofit, So you.

17:51 Know, through you know, we're everybody right now, let's just talk about kind of the you know, the buzz or the hype around AI and technology. You know, I get a lot of calls from CEOs to say, I need this shiny new thing, or we need a new learning management system, or you know, we've got to figure out this AI thing. And the advice I've been giving people today is that, yes, you may need that infrastructure, but the technology is not going to transform your organization. It's the people. So how do you when everything seems to be changing today, you know, how do we work to help people grow, not fear technology, get on board with the vision and the mission of the organization. So that's you know, that's one thing that I think is just something that we all need to be thinking about today.

18:55 And the other piece of this is that relationship between your board and the staff and the CEO. That is really important. You know, successful organizations have a really good relationship between the board and what the board's role is and what the staff role is. And a lot of times we see a lot of conflict between those boards and the staff and that doesn't help grow an organization at all. Absolutely, And so many times what happens is like so for example, if all startup is become you know, and they've had a good drawn and then they become a public company. So what happens is from that Like in a startup company, usually that closeness is there because it's a smaller group of people. Now as the company is growing, that distance between the board and then employees gets bigger and bigger. The CEOs have more responsible like the execu team has more responsibility on their shoulders, like, you know, they've got to please the shareholders now, but that's something that may not be in alignment with the employee. So what can the board do. They're not just coming down hard like we got to get it done, got to get it done. Gotta get it done and still bring people along.

20:23 Sure. Well, Like if you look at at things like strategic planning, right, you know, the board is in a in a room, let's just say, for a couple of days talking about the future of the organization and strategy. But a lot of times there's a gap with the staff knowledge that they have to actually implement the plan, right, So I think it's important to bridge that gap. You know. I guess that's ends up being a want of communications gap. Uh, there's knowledge that's happened in that board room that the app are not aware of. They're not aware of the why. So really taking what the direction is from the board and their vision and making sure it's extremely well communicated, not just communicated, but the why, right, Like the why is what gives people the understanding to be able to execute and not just say, oh, we need to do X because the board said it. I went through I think it was about five CEO transitions in nine years at my second association, and it just always seemed a little bit chaotic, right, and you didn't really understand what the board's direction is or what the why was.

21:45 Right. We had a list of tasks that needed to get done every year because when there was a new president, we had all new agenda. They wanted anew this, a new website, whatever it might be, and we just executed on it. Never, no, I shouldn't say never, but a lot of times didn't know the why. When we had those CEOs there that brought us to the table and were communicating that why and the reasoning, and that really kind of you know, gave us a lot more momentum and understanding and were and we're much more effective. So yeah, no, definitely. And also this whole barrier and gap between oh, this is the executive team and the rest.

22:34 So as a matter of fact, you know, I was coaching one of the executives he's on the C suite team, and I said, like, how about I know that you know you are sharing it down like top down. What if you had some people that you know have the vision and that they challenge you and your decisions. So going back to your why is what happens is that why it just kind of becomes the purpose thing. So rather than keeping it as a purpose and just keeping it as ornamental, making it in day to day operations and when you bring it in your day to day operations, people are able to understand that, Okay, we got to do this. And it's also the willingness and ability to listen because sometimes the demand of the market may be, oh, we just got to fix the solution, but then that solution can break down. So listening to your people and seeing where it is and bringing it out so some great points. So now coming back to the digital transformation as you were talking about. So when we have this, I always believe in that strategy, the strategic planning. So how are you going about it? Bringing people in? And I know you talk about leading with heart, tell us about that so that way AI or anything like you mentioned, right, it's just a true.

24:00 Right right, Well that's you know right now, I think there's people are either really excited or they're terrified, right like we have. And so I always tell CEOs and leaders and organizations, even if you're hearing that the staff is excited because you just gave them chat, GPT or whatever the tool might be, there's half of your organization is afraid of it, right. I mean I've walked into rooms and now I've started. I was doing some AI training and I went around and asked everybody in the room and there are people there that says, I don't want to I don't want to touch it, right like so so it's so having those conversations I think is really important. But more than that, when we talk about heart, we talk about and I'll kind of go through kind of the framework, but humanized like putting people before the process, what is behind? And this kind of gets into the why, right, like why are we doing certain things? Why are we implementing this?

25:08 And what. You know, what do people need? In the industry and association industry, it's we're servicing members, So why are the members asking for certain things? Why do they need a certain technology? And really understanding the why. And then the E stands for empower So empowering your staff. I mean we were just we're working with an organization right now that there's a lot of frustration, but there was a challenge. Uh, something happened at this organization where they were potentially going to be sued, so everybody pulled back, the CEO, the board, and the staff's no longer empowered. So that's creating, you know, frustration and I and to really grow an organization, empowering your team is extremely important. And then we talk about, you know, us send and making sure that the team feels like they can rise above whatever those challenges are. Right, So being able to have the courage and the voice kind of when we talked about back at Panasonic, that was like transformative, Like all of a sudden, I was a kid that had you know, the courage that Okay, I had a voice and I was seen. Right, So

26:41 making sure that your people are seen and they have a voice at the table, I think you know you just talked about that a little bit as well. And then reimagining, So the ours for reimagine like reimagining what can be better? Now we have these tools, whether it's AI or some other technology, how do we use it to our fullest? How do we rethink our current processes? And reimagining doesn't mean like starting from scratch, it's kind of like it's just about seeing things a little bit differently. Uh. And then to that point, then the fourth pillar or the fifth pillar is transform transformation and letting go of those old identities and we all hang on to those old beliefs, limiting beliefs, and how do we get beyond that to transform either for ourselves or for our organizations and again I kind of look at that, you know, on both sides when you think about, you know, what is going to help me move to the next better version of myself. It's really getting you know, away from those limiting beliefs and those challenges that you have to kind of grow into that next version of yourself or your organization. So that's kind of the five pillars of

28:12 heart when I talk about heart and what has happened, oh, you know, over my career. Again, we get those calls of we need the shiny new thing whatever it is. But technology doesn't transform an organization. People do. And technology enables that growth and that transformation of course, but a lot of times people are afraid, you know, new technology. There's a new project, right like, oh no, now you just gave me a whole new project, or I don't understand this technology, or it's kind of fearful. So it's important to bring your people along through that journey in order for it to be successful. And the successful projects and the organizations that have had very successful digital transformations, it's all about the people. It's all about creating those teams, empowering people. Because of most people in those organizations, they don't know the tech right and a lot of them are fearful.

29:27 So it's about building that trust with them. That okay, because as you mentioned right, you talked about the identity as well, that reimagining doesn't mean that you're just kind of changing. So a lot of companies are rushing to be that AI first, AI native, whatever we want to call it. So if you want to be AI FoST it's about building that trust with your people, bringing in their experience that yes, we are going to bring it in. And it's not that we're going to lay you off because beer can be hanging on people's head versus like you know, we are going to empower you, as you mentioned in one of your ease then you learn, and we are making this company competitive against the other companies, and of course you know we have to talk about the competitive advantage over here. It is a must now.

30:20 But we are doing it together. You're building it with your experience, having that human intervention, with some godrails, and with those checks and balances. So that's very powerful. I love what you said about the heart, So do share with us, like you know, if anybody's thinking about like, okay, we want to bring in AI and you talked about bringing in teams. What are some top of the like you know, three to four things that people can keep in mind. Sure, So I first, I think we're working with an organization, with several organizations that right now that will call us up and say we need a policy, and yes, you know, we can give them a policy. I have a draft policy.

31:11 But I was talking to somebody yesterday about the fact that you really want the teams or the organization the buy in from staff. So creating a team and talking with them through what are their biggest challenges, How can AI help them with those challenges and bring them in on developing a policy and why, because that will just help communicate that throughout the organization. Right. So they you've got a team with some buy in, they cannot they can help educate goes back to the why, right, educate people of why you have a policy. And I'll give you an example. So yesterday I actually we're talked to two different organizations and one was like sharing, we have to have a policy, we have to have guard rails.

32:05 People are using it and it's very top down. The approach was very top down. So we talked again. We talked about you know, getting a team together and why we don't want to take that approach. Another one was like, yes, we know people are using this. We you know, we need to get buy in and get some guardrails. But they're already talking to the staff about finding those things that are taking a lot of time that AI can do so they can be more creative, so they can spend more time on the things that they want to do. And it was just a different like, it was just a different conversation from these two leaders of how they're approaching it into their organizations. But I do think that you know, having the kind of an AI team for lack of a better term, and creating what those guardrails are and why looking at where, looking at the organizational goals and how AI can approach you know, can support those goals. But the one thing I would say, first to do training because there is a gap in the training and staff's having a hard time making some of those decisions without understanding what is machine learning? What is a large language model? How can you know how does

33:36 AI really work? Like it's not just magic, right, it feels like it sometimes, but you know how how those the technology actually works. I think is really really important, and people are rushing to the tool without spending that time on the training piece of it. So I think that's really really important. No, absolutely agree with you, Sherry, because unless you know what it can do for you, unless you know your processes, unless you know where there are gaps and where it can help you the best. Because so that was one of the very similar stories one of my clients had mentioned, like, you know, he came to me after they had purchased a multimillion dollar AI tool and it was completely not the right fit for their company. And I'm sure you've seen something similar to that. And then it's like, you know, some cast bias. You're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and it doesn't work. So the key is looking at your processes and like you know, what can be automated and what can be still kept and strategizing it coming back to the strategic plans so important.

34:52 So definitely some great nuggets over here. And I'm sure a lot of people will be thinking, Okay, how can we connect with Sherry, So share with us, can they connect with you? And where can they be found? Like you know, where can you be found? And anything to share? Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn. I post almost every day, so follow me on LinkedIn or you can reach me at info at org source dot com. I am releasing a book around this heart framework. It's called RUG. The book is the website, so that will be published early in the year. But it's all about kind of helping people thrive through disruption and how to lead teams. So we're really excited about that. And yeah, so I would love to connect with with with anyone who wants to talk about leading in this digital world or help being with organizational kind of transformation.

36:05 Fantastic, Well, thank you for joining us, Sherry. It was a pleasure. Thank you, and. Thank you wonderful audience, because without you, the show would not be possible. We love you and we want to bring you the best stories. We want to bring you what you need, So do share with us what is it that you need and how can we serve and support you to lift the life you want and the life you deserve. And thank you on for making the show technically possible. Be Villa and take care until next time. Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence with your host d V Park. We hope you have learned more about how to start living the life you want. Each week on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who've experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships.

36:56 During Beyond Confidence, Vpark shares what happened to her and she stepped out of her comfort zone to work directly with people across the globe. She not only coaches people how to form hard connections, but also transform relationships to mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the life they want. If you are ready to live the life you want and leverage your strengths, learn more at www dot dwpark dot com and you can connect with vat contact at dvpark dot com. We look forward to you're joining us next week.