The Success Trap Nobody Talks About

0:00 This is Beyond Confidence with your host, Divya Parikh. Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional, and financial goals? Well, coming up on Divya Parikh's Beyond Confidence, you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and are living the life they want. You will learn how relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals. Moving your career or business forward does not have to happen at the expense of your personal or family life, or vice versa. Learn more at www.diviapark.com, and you can connect with Divya at contact at divyapark.com. This is Beyond Confidence, and now here's your host, Divya Park.

0:46 Good morning, listeners, and welcome. I want to talk today about community. What does community mean for you? So just recently, we wrapped up our couple of cohorts, masterminds that we run. And on the last day of our mastermind, our coaches and entrepreneurs said that we don't want this to end. We want it to continue. Because in this Especially with AI. Yes, you can sit and chat with AI. And yes, I'm a huge proponent of AI. Along with the human connection.

1:30 So it's important to focus on that human connection. And it was just amazing. The word that came out of it was hang. That we want to hang out together. We want to stay connected together. So never, ever underestimate the power of human connection, whether we will be in full AI area or whether we are going to be surrounded by bots or robots, that human connection is the way to go. And one thing that I want to share with you is that if you are looking to grow your career, grow your business while keeping that humanity while keeping that focus on how humans are still in the lead position, whether it's AI or bots, then the AI agency is the book for you. I want to thank each and every one of you since you've got it.

2:35 And who have not got it, get it just for that reason. And always, always remember to be kind, sharing, whether it's a simple smile or acknowledging someone. So never, ever forget that human connection. Let's bring in our guest. Welcome, Becky. Good morning, Divya. Good morning. So, Becky, do you recall a moment or a person or a situation or experience that left you such a positive mark on you that it still stays with you as fresh on the day it happened.

3:23 Yeah. You know, there's so many people that I, I would love to name right now, but I think what comes to mind is my, one of my early bosses, uh, she was a mentor, a friend, and I just learned so much from her about leadership, about courage, about being a woman in leadership. And, um, yeah, to this day, I just, you know, I always think back to this day, I would call her if I was really in a bind and needed, needed some advice. She's just, she's that person that doesn't let you apologize. That'll kind of hit you between the eyes with, you know, what you need to hear. Um, but you.

4:04 Accept it because she does it with a loving, loving heart. So yeah, her name is Ann. She's the, she's just the person that comes to mind for me. Hmm. So let's give a shout out to Anne and all those mentors and women out there who are helping others, who will hold others accountable with a loving heart. Because so many times what happens, Becky, as you said that, you know, she gives you straight. And it's important. And what is it about that, that even though she gave you straight, you... still cherish it and treasure it?

4:46 Yeah. I cherish it because I knew I could trust her. I knew that she had my back. No matter what. And as long as I was honest. And forthright with her, she was going to have my back in any situation. And so she could give it to me. Straight because she showed me that she cared about me. You got to care about people And you got to be able to trust people in order to follow them. And she definitely built that. No, trust. It's a word that is so fragile, takes years to build and can be shattered in moments. So given that, share a bit about your career journey as to where did it traverse and how did you get there?

5:40 Yeah, well, my journey started out actually because of a cow, literally. My father was a farmer and I graduated from college and I actually graduated with a teaching degree and I was going to become a teacher. And then meanwhile, I was doing temporary work in business and I just really enjoyed the business aspect and decided to pursue business instead. And I was working temporarily. At the time. And my father knew this CEO of a company who he bought a steer from. And he told, he announced to me one day that he was going to call the CEO and tell him to give me a job.

6:22 I was horrified. You know, at the young age of 22, it's like, no, you can't call him. Well, he did call him. And that CEO got me with their recruiter and And then I was able to take a receptionist job. So I started out at the reception and I quickly saw that they had a need for human resources. So I had the courage to approach. The CEO and say, hey, if you let me go get my. HR certification, I believe I can help you with your human resources department. And he let me do that. And that started my long career in HR. Yeah.

7:02 And so many times what happens is that, especially women, and there are quite a few men also, but usually women shy away from asking what they want. Absolutely, they do. And so often they don't get to where they want to get because they're afraid to ask. And I always felt like I needed to be ready. So I did a lot to make sure I felt ready for that next step. But I also knew that I deserved to get there. And if you sit and wait, oftentimes it's not going to come to you. Sometimes people don't even recognize something that you could do. And so you have to show them that, hey, I believe I can do this. Just give me a chance.

7:57 Indeed. And what do you think gets in the way for them? Well, I think girls are socialized very young to be good girls and to, you know, to please others, take care of others. And so there, you know, there's studies that show that very early in school, if a question is asked, boys will raise their hand and they're not afraid to answer whether they're. Right or wrong. And girls will be like. Ooh, I'm not 100% sure, so I'm not going to raise my hand. And so it starts very young. And then they get praised along the way for being that good girl. And so you get in the corporate world, and sometimes it's easier to shrink or make yourself smaller not to rock any boats. And so I think women just more than men They also say that if there's a job a man is applying for, if he meets one of five.

9:02 Qualifications, he'll go for it. Whereas the woman will meet four and say, I don't have all the qualifications, so I'm not going to apply. And so sometimes we just have to have that courage to believe in ourselves and step forward. Yeah. And as a result, what happens is, and I've seen it in so many of my women clients and nowadays a lot of men clients as well, is that they do a great work. And yes, they're a high performer. They are praised for their performance. And yet they are not seen as the next potential leader. So there is that recognition gap. That, yes, there's a recognition for performance, but not recognition for that next tier or next promotion or that next next strategic career move so in your experience what have you seen so share some of your experience with us.

10:11 Yeah so i think what happens sometimes you know you have different types of leaders some are much more um gregarious and outspoken and maybe the loudest voice in the room. And sometimes in leadership situations, you get a group of people together and some are fearful of speaking. And sometimes it's a culture thing where the culture kind of shows you that by speaking up, you might get made fun of or you might You know, somebody might come down hard on you. So I saw this a lot with leadership teams, men and women, where they five minutes before the meeting, they wanted to go into the meeting and have a voice and, you know, give their stance on something.

11:01 And then you're in the meeting, the CEO walks in and he's got. A different opinion. And pretty soon you see this person who just said they were going to stand up and say their piece. put their head down and say, I 100% agree with you, CEO. And so I saw this way too many times in leadership. And it was really disheartening for me because I always felt like we can't be effective as a leadership team if we are just doing the group think. And going along or we're doing everybody a disservice. But it's easier sometimes to choose that comfort, choose the paycheck and the title and the comfort over our integrity or speaking the truth or doing the right thing. So I believe that courage is one of the largest pieces of missing.

11:57 Competency in leadership today. No, absolutely. That courage is the piece because that's the hidden cost. You don't speak up. You want to be incongruent. And a lot of people take compliance as congruence, which it is not. And that's why it creates that exhaustion, whether it can be mental exhaustion, emotional exhaustion, physical exhaustion. And so it's costing them. So what other costs you have seen when people are not taking that little tiny bit of courage. And it can start out with one small step. It just doesn't have to be that if you have not been speaking up and now, oh, I'm in a meeting and I got to completely disagree. So what are some of the other costs that could happen?

12:51 Yeah, so I think the cost is that it starts showing up physically for you. So the more you swallow, like what you really want to say, the more you're, you know, kind of not living to your values or in your integrity, then it starts showing up. Maybe in headaches, you know. Stress, shoulder pain, strange medical, you know, situations. I've seen many people, leaders go. To the doctor and be treated for things that there's no scientific reason for it. And then if the stress goes away one day, those things go away as well.

13:33 So I think there's a real physical cost first, and then it takes the brain maybe longer to catch up and realize what's going on. And so people get very, leaders get very exhausted. Maybe they can't sleep, but they're not yet connecting it to, like, this isn't working for me. I'm feeling out of alignment with my own values. But to recognize that takes time. Absolutely. And so coming back to courage, what are some of the steps that people can put into their careers, starting out with small so that we are not seeing this gap? gap between what they have done and gap being recognized as that strategic leader?

14:26 Yeah, so I think the first thing is just an awareness and kind of an awakening that I think a lot of times we think we're alone, right? And we think nobody else is experiencing this. And so then, therefore, I must just work harder and harder and harder and exhaust myself and increase my competency and then it'll come. But the problem is it never comes if the courage doesn't follow. So the next step is having the courage to start speaking up, to have a voice, to be okay with, you know, I always said, if, if I have something really important to say and the organization doesn't want to hear it, then I'm okay if that doesn't work out well for me because it's, because my voice needs to be heard. And so getting that courage is that second step. And then, and then that can start to address like, okay, it's not, you know, maybe it wasn't me.

15:32 I do, I can speak up. And then that leads you to peace. Peace in that, you know, that you're living in your integrity and, You might be redefining your own definition of of success because we're taught that success looks like a certain path, you know, a certain title or paycheck promotions. And to to end in with peace, sometimes you have to make some changes in your in your life and career to follow your true passions and your and redefine what is success for you. And that will bring peace and it'll reduce that stress and give you much more fulfillment.

16:14 So one thing that definitely stood out as you have been sharing is that having that courage and courage is standing up for your values, aligning with yourself and speaking up. And you said something very profound that the organization may not be the right place for you because they may not be ready to listen to you. So if that's not the room for you, have you experienced any of that? And if you did, what did you do? Yeah, well, I was the HR leader for many, many years in different organizations. And so I had the opportunity to see many times where maybe the organization wasn't ready for the talent that we brought in.

17:06 And so, you know, I. Saw a pattern at times where you bring in really talented individuals and they don't survive in the organization. And quickly it turns to, you know, they don't have the skills that we thought they have. And I think sometimes the reality is that maybe the organization doesn't wasn't ready versus it being a misfit for the per that the person wasn't misfit and um and so I saw this pattern over over and over again and um and so sometimes I think we have to recognize that not every every organization is going to be right for us and that's okay It really is okay. And I like to say that you take your title, you take your skill, you take your competency with you.

18:03 So the. Answer isn't always to have to leave either. I want to make that clear because sometimes it's just a matter of making sure you speak up, ask for what you want, and see if changes can be made. And then if they can't and you're still unhappy, then it might be time to leave. And when you do, just know that you're taking all your skills and abilities with you to go do something else. So it's not like you're leaving it all behind. You get to take everything that got you there in the first place with you. Yeah. And that's something nobody can take it away from you. Because so many times what happens is I have several clients saying that, that I did all this work. I did this, but it's not being recognized. And then they feel that loss of control, lack of power, and that really, really eats their soul. And that's exactly what you said is that whatever time, whatever experience that they have gained, nobody can take that away from them, that competency. So it comes back again to defining the success, having that internal validation first. And of course, external validation is important.

19:22 External recognition and reinforcement is important as you climb the ladder. But creating that mark, hallmark of success for yourself, that is so crucial. So as you continued in your career, how did you see that rising up the ranks was the career for you? I loved. I've loved working in corporate I actually love working and I loved leading a team being on a leadership team but it was hard it's hard work and there's so many dynamics and all of that going on And I would say throughout my entire career, no matter what organization I was in, there were those moments of feeling of values misalignment.

20:20 And, and then when you get. Into your later career, you start to really, you know, I think I see a lot of people get that pull for like, is there something more for me? Is this really what I want to do? And so while. I loved it, At the later part of my career, I was starting to really get pulled to leadership development and really wanting to have an impact on the lives of leaders, especially those that were coming up through the ranks that I kind of wanted to save them from some of the things I had experienced and no one shared with me how to navigate and And that is really how I found, you know, I always had a calling to own my own business. And but I never knew what that was going to be.

21:14 I love babies. So I thought maybe I'll open a daycare. I love home decor. So I thought, well, maybe I'll open a retail decor store. I had all kinds of ideas. Throughout the years, whenever something didn't feel quite right, I had that pull to own a business. Well, then I had the opportunity to be in a peer group with the founder of Next Monday. And she created this group of women where we got together. And I was in the group from 2012 to now I'm facilitating the group. And we still have women that were in that original group. So I found a group of people where I felt safe and where I could say out loud anything that I thought maybe had some shame behind it or trusted these women with all of my heart and just the guidance and started to realize that this is the work I want to do. This is the impact I want to have. I want to have a place for women to really come together and feel completely safe, not judged, and to be able to say out loud, I'm exhausted and I don't know what to do. I've worked, you know, I can't do any more, but I'm giving it all my all and it's not working out and, and feeling like they have some people that can lift them up and help them navigate through that.

22:45 Yeah. Now, congratulations on creating a space. for women, because as you said, having that safe space. And then as coaches, we do that. We hold that safe space for others. And so many times women hold that space for their family, for their children, for work. So it's important that they have that space for them to come home to. So you mentioned that you had a calling to help emerging leaders in the succession planning, talent development space. so that they would not experience some of the things you had experienced. So what might those be? And as our audience is listening, what could they do to not fall into those traps?

23:34 Yeah, you know, I think one of the things I get asked a lot is how do you navigate as a woman in a male-dominated environment? And so, you know, that's one of the I will call it the traps of women sometimes tend to, maybe they get promoted from a individual contributor to a. Manager or leadership role. And when the meeting happens and notes have to be taken, they're kind of assigned the note taking, um, And so women often ask, how do I navigate that without. It feeling rude? Because we want to please, right? We want to take care of people.

24:16 And so, you know, I say, well, the way to navigate that is to say, yeah, I'd be happy to take the notes for this meeting. And then next time someone else can take the notes, you know, so it's not threatening. It's just stating a fact. So sometimes we do it to ourselves. We have to be careful sometimes. to not fall into the traps of doing things because we're caretakers and, but, but recognizing and believing that we have a place at the table and we deserve to be there and have a voice just as much as anyone else does. Yeah. And that's one of the things Sheryl Sandberg talks about in her Lenin book.

24:56 Yeah. Finding that place at the table. Yeah. So important. And yeah, what would you say, what are some of the obstacles that you faced as you stepped into leadership? Yeah, well, I was, uh, um, you know, I feel like I had a few strikes and one of those was I'm an introvert at, at heart. And so I don't have the loudest voice. And so, um, and, um, And then I was the HR leader. And so when HR is in the room, often you hear, oh, sorry, Becky, we can't say that in front of you.

25:40 Or those kind of things. And then being a female in often male-dominated environments, often the only female in the room. Um, and you know, and then I was in an industry where I didn't have prior industry knowledge and I was working with people who had been in the industry for 40 years. And so, you know, all of those are obstacles and strikes against you. So you have to find a way to really, you know, figure out how you're going to be taken seriously, how you get to have a voice at the table. And I had to work. Really hard to, build collaborations and prove that I wasn't there to take over or, you know, have power. I really just wanted to collaborate. And, you know, there were times where like a CFO, you know, felt threatened or something.

26:35 And it's like, I'm never going to be the CFO ever. Don't have the skill, don't want it. So let's just work together and collaborate. So, You know, there was just a lot of having to stay strong and, you know, not beat yourself up, not letting your internal voices tell you that it's, you know, what if it is me? I tended to go get a lot of certifications. And, you know, I realize now that maybe, you know, I always wanted to prove my competency. Right. You know, and so and it's. Like maybe I could have done a little bit less of that and maybe just said, no, I can do this.

27:23 I've got this. And but I think, you know, it was my way of like saying, no, see, I do know what I'm talking about. But but I think, you know, we just have to have that courage to keep keep on. showing up and keep being willing to have the voice and to speak up. Yeah, and we come back to courage, courage to face the unknown, courage because so many times what stops people is that fear. If I say this, what's going to happen? And especially nowadays with AI in the mix, I mean, we have gone through so many transitions, even in the information era, and especially with AI, like it changes. Sometimes it feels like it's changing every 30 seconds. So it is about having that courage and dancing with that ambiguity and uncertainty. So you have talked a lot about courage.

28:34 So tell us more about your book as to... what it talks about and what got you to start writing it and working on it? Yeah. So I always thought I would write a book one day. I didn't really know what it was going to be about. Um, I thought maybe it would be about all my stories as an HR leader and all the things that people do. They do crazy things. Right. Um, but, um, as I really, um, I had a woman, she's a ghostwriter, who ended up saying to me, you've said you want to write a book, you've said it out loud, it's time.

29:17 And so I decided to do it. And I wanted it to be a book that was not just my story, but the story of many women who are experiencing what I'm talking about, that exhaustion, feeling like, why does success feel so thin? And what if the problem is me? And I've seen too. many brilliant, competent, intelligent women who have done wonderful things, and yet. They feel like they're failing. And so I wanted this book to really highlight those stories and show women that there are, there are many, many women that you would look, look to from the outside and say, wow, they're accomplished, but on the inside, they're feeling, they're not feeling so accomplished. And so, you know, the book goes through those three things I talked about earlier of just the awakening and then moving to courage and then finding peace. So I really wrote the book hoping that younger women picking it up can learn from it and not let all those voices get in their head for 30 years. So learn earlier or someone who's in it now to, you know, really be able to breathe and say, oh, thank goodness I'm not alone. And this isn't, you know, this isn't a me problem. You know,

30:50 we all have to own some of our things, right? There's always things that we can own and do better and learn from. But so often we are telling ourselves the stories that just isn't true. And so I'm hoping that it just is a book that will help many, many women. Well, it definitely sounds like it. And when is the book coming out? The book will be available on September 9th on Amazon. So really soon here, getting close. Yeah, congratulations. And I'm sure that it's going to provide that path of navigation to a lot of different women.

31:34 Because as you said, so many times what happens is there's so much self-judgment and that inner critic takes over. So just knowing that other women are facing that and it's okay. It's okay where I'm at. And it's okay for me to give myself permission to find that piece that you have been talking about. So definitely you mentioned that it'll be coming out pretty soon. And it's going to be on Amazon. And if people wanted to connect with you and reach out to you, what's the best way to do it?

32:15 Yeah, they can reach me at next-monday.com. And if they want a free chapter of the book, they can go to next-monday.com slash uncommon courage. And then I'm also on LinkedIn as Becky Espy. So they can reach out to me there as well. Definitely. And are there any other nuggets that you'd like to share with our audience? Oh, wow. You know, in the book, I have one.... Tool that is an easy tool that has helped me throughout my career. And it has to do with courage and it's called, we call it the mirror test. And it's as simple as if I make a decision today, when I wake up tomorrow morning, am I going to be able to look in the mirror and feel good about what I, what I, the decision I made, or am I going to be like, Oh, that kind of doesn't sit with my values and my integrity.

33:18 And so I. Just encourage leaders to, it's hard, it's hard to speak up, especially when you've got the CEO saying one thing and, but we owe it to ourselves. We owe it to the people we're leading to, to really be able to, you know, look in that mirror and know that we did the right thing, even if it doesn't, you know, even if it's hard, it's sometimes you got to make hard decisions and It doesn't always pay off well for you. But in the end, your soul. Is going to benefit from being able to look in the mirror and having done the right thing.

34:00 That is so powerful, Becky. Now, you mentioned something that I want to come back to, that CEO may be saying that. And you had mentioned another story about that, you know, when this one person wanted to say something and then the CFO came in. And then they were quiet. So as a result, that exhaustion happens. And sometimes people just keep on pushing through. What are a couple of ways that people can recognize misalignment? I often say, you know, you have to find those few people that you can really trust and confide in.

34:44 So don't go out alone. And sometimes we try to try to, you know, work hard to be long in a room and sometimes we don't feel very invited. So I think we have to create our own rooms sometimes and find those three to five people that they're going to tell you the truth. They're going to say something's not right here. You look exhausted or those headaches. Aren't aren't normal. You've got to do something. Someone you can trust enough to like take in that information and know that they're not trying to manipulate you or get you out of the organization. But so create your own room of people who who can really see you and help you recognize that.

35:33 There's something not quite adding up for you. Yeah. So then. What you're talking about is building that trusted partnerships. And when you have trusted partnerships that you can lean on, it makes a huge difference in having that courage because now you know that somebody's got your back and you can take that step with, of course, there's always going to be some fear, but with confidence because you're coming from a place of collective rather than just leaning on your own and facing that exhaustion alone. So powerful. And Becky, thank you for joining us. And we wish you all the best for your book. Again, listeners, Becky's book. What's the title of it, Becky?

36:25 It's called Uncommon Courage, Reframe Success Without Sacrificing Your Soul. So definitely go read it. Check it out on Amazon, September 9th. Uncommon Courage. So I'm definitely going to check it out. And thank you for joining us. And wonderful audience. Remember that there may be times because that's what life is all about. It's full of highs and lows. So finding that courage. taking that one step, dancing with discomfort and moving towards the life you deserve. Thank you for being part of our family. Reach out to us as you always do and share with us how can we serve and support you to live the best life you deserve.

37:22 And thank you, Ann, for making the show technically possible. Be well and take care until next time. Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence with your host Divya Parikh. We hope you have learned more about how to start living the life you want. Each week on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who have experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships. During Beyond Confidence, Divya Park shares what happened to her when she stepped out of her comfort zone to work directly with people across the globe. She not only coaches people how to form heart connections, but also transform relationships to mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the life they want. If you are ready to live the life you want and leverage your strengths, learn more at www.diviapark.com.

38:08 And you can connect with Divya at contact at divyapark.com. We look forward to you joining us next week.