Aug. 11, 2026

How to Build a Company That Outgrows You?

Show Notes
Transcript

A business should be built to thrive without its founder. In this candid conversation, Bruce Eckfeldt explores growth, exit planning, leadership, and founder identity. Learn how strong systems, capable teams, and shared decision-making can increase business value while giving founders greater freedom and choice—whether or not an exit is on the horizon.

Beyond Confidence is broadcast live Tuesdays at 10AM ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Beyond Confidence TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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This is Beyond Confidence with your host w Park. Do

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you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you

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want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional,

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and financial goals? Well? Coming up on dvparks Beyond Confidence,

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you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers

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who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and

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are living the life they want. You will learn how

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relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.

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Moving your career business forward does not have to happen

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at the expense of your personal or family life or

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vice versa. Learn more at www dot Divpork dot com

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and you can connect with vant contact edt dvpark dot com.

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This is beyond confidence and now here's your host, div Park.

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Good morning listeners, It's Tuesday, and of course I'm thrilled

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to be here with you all. Yesterday's something very interesting happened.

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I was speaking Robert actually, one of our previous podcast guests,

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amazing guy. He invited me to speak to his leadership

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cohort and then the questions I heard from them were

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just amazing that he has going so fast and so rapidly,

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that it is increasing it's reasoning, it's increasing its capacity,

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and there's so much more to learn that how do

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we go ahead and implement AI confidently?

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Like?

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Do I need to know everything about AI? And here's

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what I'm going to share with you that I shared

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with the decision makers yesterday. You don't need to know

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everything about AI. It's about building your metacognitive skills so

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you can train AI and AI can be there to

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augment you. A is not the answer and a magic

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wand to all the problems. It's the answer is you.

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And if you are looking to stay up to date

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and future proof your business and career, than AI agencies

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for you and it was very heartening yesterday to hear

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how the book is helping them out make the right decisions.

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So think you think you thank you to each and

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every one of you who have got our books. Really

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appreciate each and every one of you and sharing your

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thoughts with us. So, without further ado, let's bring in

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our guest, Malcolm Bruce.

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How are you.

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Good to have you on the show's gaure to be here?

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Absolutely so, Bruce. We usually start out with whether it's

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a moment or a person in your life that left

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an intellible positive mark on you. What would that be?

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Yeah, I would say, I mean there's been series of them.

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I've done a lot of competitive sports over the years,

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so a lot of them are coaches of various sorts

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and shapes, And I think on the sports side, early

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I remember high school was competitive cross country skier and

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our coach, the team coach, I think, was really interptal

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about teaching me the power of discipline and training and

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what it you know, showing up every day doing the reps,

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doing the work, and not only to get the reward

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in terms of being able to perform well and get

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on the podium, but really kind of enjoying that process

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and kind of the discipline and the work for its

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own sake and just being really appreciating the power of

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enjoying discipline work. And I think that served me throughout

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my life. And then on the business side, I had

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a gentleman I worked with. Tom Nicholson was kind of

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the first agency I worked with when I got recruited

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to New York and just seeing his approach to kind

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of entrepreneurship and we went from a fifty person kind

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of very boutique agency in the New York City area

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to eighteen hundred people globally, fourteen offices across Europe. Right,

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that kind of whole growth process and seeing him navigate that,

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you know, about the challenges and also the successes. Right,

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It was that he was very instrumental in kind of

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my entrepreneurial business world.

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And what really resonated with me was that enjoying the

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discipline work. And so many times what happens is is

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that as you're talking to people, as you talk to

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your clients, it almost seems like discipline has become a

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lost art. Have you experienced that.

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Yeah, I think it's I would say, well, there's probably

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a couple of things around it. I do think there's

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there has been kind of a culture of quick wins

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and hacks and you know, finding kind of ways around

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doing the hard work, which I certainly appreciate, like being

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smart and look, if you can find a better, faster

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way of doing something, let's let's do that. But I

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think sometimes we kind of fall into this let's avoid

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hard work at any cost and take the shortcuts, you know,

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even when they do leave us short in terms of

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the actual results. So I think there's a little bit

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of a culture of that that I've seen in the

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business world that I sometimes feel like we're you know,

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too focused on that and not focused on you know,

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just you're putting in the reps. And you know, I

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think a lot of it too is things are moving

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so quickly that I think some people lose confidence that

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the reps are actually going to get them somewhere. So

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it's like, Okay, well, I'm going to spend three years

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on doing this, right it is the world really going

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to be the thing for the years and is too

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much going to change where I lose confidence in the

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ability for the work to actually deliver the results and

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so and I think that's real in many cases, like

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we do need to kind of think through like, yeah,

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what are the forces, what are the plays? How do

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we stay on top of things so that you know,

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if the plan needs to change, we change the plan.

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But I don't think it means we need to give

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up the reps. We just need to really make sure

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that we're continuing, continuously updating the plan and being you know,

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very situational aware of what's changing, and then make adjustments accordingly.

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But I would say those are the two big challenges

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I run into there.

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Yeah, you definitely brought up a great point over there,

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and it's it's almost too cute us in as to

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what I was mentioning earlier, it is about yes, what

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can the tools do for you? And then what can

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you do? And as you mentioned about that fast pace,

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So the way I see it is it's so important

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to have that discipline decision making as well. So discipline

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just doesn't mean towards the actions, but it's also about

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how are you making that decision making? Are you evaluating consistently?

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As you mentioned, things change and is your business or

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your career going to be relevant in three years time?

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So it's about adapting and pivoting as things change while

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being focused on the reps as you mentioned, because I

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haven't seen anyone building muscles, building their six packs or

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with their muscles, we want to call into action in

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a day or so. So it's about like, you know,

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the course may change, you can code correct at the

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same time that discipline stays really well. So you talked

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about your first foray into business was with mister Colson,

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So tell us more about that time that. Did you

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start your journey directing into the entrepreneurship from there or

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what was it like?

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Yeah, I mean I had a little bit of a

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securitist route to being a founder. It was so Originally

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I was an architect. I trained at mcglean University in Montreal.

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I did two degrees in architecture. I grew up in Minnesota.

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I went back to Minnesota to practice for a little bit,

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started working with a kind of mid sized firm in

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the Twin Cities, and fairly quickly realized that the profession,

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the practice of architecture was very different than the training

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of architecture and was I think a little disenchanted with

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how I saw the kind of profession playing out. Fortunately,

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at the time I had done a lot of computer

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work as part of my architecture education, and I was

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working with the design lead at the firm to do

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more kind of computer modeling and animation work. I was

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kind of hot in the computer so leveraged that and

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at one point just realized the world was kind of shifting.

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I got contacted by an agency, really a recruiter out

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of New York who they were looking for people who

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could do this three D modeling work for more interactive,

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interactive media kind of stuff. So originally it was very

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high on CD ROMs and museum kiosks and things like that.

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The web was just kind of taking off, and I

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got recruited and I kind of made a decision at

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that point that you know, I had an opportunity to

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kind of pivot a little bit, leverage some of the

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skills and capabilities into a new kind of uncharted territory.

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It was exciting. I got to move to New York,

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I got to work with kind of agency world, and

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I kind of jumped, you know, both feet into the

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deep end on that one. And I kind of joke,

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if I really knew everything, if I knew everything that

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I learned over the process, Originally I probably wouldn't have

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paid that switch, but I did, and I'm glad I did.

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But yeah, that got me into kind of the agency world,

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and then we got you know, we're working with a

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lot of growth companies and startups and you know, converting

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people into kind of digital businesses and stuff. So I

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think I just got the business bug. I got very

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into strategy, I got very into technology, and I spent

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six years in the agency world and then founded my

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own tech company back in two thousand and two. Originally

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focused on extreme programming, but we were a lean, agile

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services provider, so we did a lot of product development

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as well as coaching and software teams and doing digital

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transformation work. So and that was fun. I enjoyed it.

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It was like I said, it wasn't I didn't, you know,

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in kindergarten. Didn't think I was going to be an

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entrepreneur and start a tech company. But it's where I

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ended up and it taught me a lot. So that

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was kind of the pivot.

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Absolutely. So you mentioned that you started a tech company,

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and we keep on hearing so many companies. Oracle laid

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this one off, EASA laid this one off, Blockchain, so

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as people are in this tech field, especially with the

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pace that AA is running. Like, you know, sometimes I

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don't know about you, but I feel like it is

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changing every thirty seconds and it's hard.

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To keep up with it.

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What would you share with people who are in the

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tech industry and you pivoted a couple of times in

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your career, What are some of the lessons learned from

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that that they can apply.

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Yes, I think in terms of my own experiences in this,

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I've always kind of found some kind of core capability

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or strength that I have that I could pivot around.

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And I think in those situations it was always a

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question of figuring out, Okay, well, what are the things

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that I have that I really love and enjoy and

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I'm good at that are assets that I can leverage,

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and what are the things I need to let go of.

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So like in the architecture one, it was, you know,

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I had to let go of the actual professional practice

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of architecture, and I do love just the built environment,

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and you know, the idea of constructing things in the

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physical environment and the whole history of architecture and how

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it impacts served spaces, Like there's a lot of things

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I loved around it. But I realized that the opportunity

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was to pivot around my design thinking skills and kind

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of technical skills, so you know, being willing to shed

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certain things, uh, and then double down on other things

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in making that pivot and then seeing, okay, where else

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can it be applied?

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Right?

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So, and and even in companies now when I'm when

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I'm coaching folks, when we look at innovation and where

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we're going to grow the business, you know, I say

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that we've we've got products and services and capabilities, and

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we've got clients and relationships, and we want to pivot

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around one of those, Like either we want to take

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the relationships that we have and find new products and

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services that we can be offering them, or we want

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to take the products and services and find new relationships

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that we can sell them into. But we don't want

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to we don't want to move both, right, Like trying

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to move both is there's there's not enough stability or

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you're not leveraging enough. So I think anytime I'm looking

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at kind of a career change and you know, going

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from architecture to kind of digital media then to entrepreneurship

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than to coaching, they all maintained something. There was something

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that I pivot around, and then there was something I

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was willing to give up. And figuring that out I

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think is the art of the pivot.

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M Yeah, you brought up a really good point that

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you know, either you can build new product and go

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look for new relationships or growing with your clients that

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as your clients are expanding, you keep on giving them

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the features or new products, so you're growing with them.

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And both of them are really great approaches. So let's

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say you are a decision maker of a company, how

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would you.

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Go so the way that I kind of look at

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that process. So for me, that's a STREATT planning and

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innovation process. So there's kind of two questions that we

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look at right as I want to understand like where

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is the customer need and where is the competitive landscape?

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And we want to look in both cases like we

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want to investigate multiple kind of pivot opportunities, right whether

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it's around the product and service or whether it's around

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the relationship, and in each case develop a strategic map

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that says, okay, well, what are the needs, what are

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the sort of deeper customer needs that we can address

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in those areas. So I want to get deep on

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really understanding what those needs are, how a customer is

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actually making that buying decision, how are they perceiving the

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evaluation process. And then I want to understand what does

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the competitive landscape look like like? What are the other

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competing products and services in that space, both direct and indirect,

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so things that are going to look like me, but

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also other ways in which the customer could solve those problems.

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And I want to see where there's an opportunity to

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really differentiate and create an advantage. Right, And if I

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see a very competitive landscape where I don't really have

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a unique insight into the customer needs and there's a

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lot of very similar uh options out there, right, I

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don't there's no real competitive advantage there. I want to

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look for that area where I do have you know,

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a very noticeable or really executable differentiation strategy in that market.

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So at a high level, I do that, and you know,

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there's a lot of details around that, but I think

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that's the art of strategy.

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Yeah, No, definitely, And it makes sense because you've got

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to see whether if you're servicing your existing clients, whether

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it's going to be viable in a few years time

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or not. So given that, let's say you know, people

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have gone through the strategy planning and okay, whether we

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need to innovate or strengthen things that you already have.

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So usually companies look for scaling, and as you are scaling,

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what are some of the systems you can STrenD in

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today that will scale as well?

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I guess fundamentally, I always say if you want to

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if you want to scale a business, you have to

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scale leadership, right like you you need, you know, a

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leadership model that is going to be scalable, meaning that

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I can have the right people in the right seats

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doing the right things as the company grows. And when

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I'm working with the leadership team, uh and we're looking

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at you know, a you know, sniffing amount of growth,

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my challenge to everyone around the table is like, if

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we're going to grow, you need to grow or we're

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going to have to hire people above you. Right, So

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it's kind of this this uh challenge for leadership to

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figure out how do I how do I scale that?

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And the fundamental challenge there I would say, I think

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most people understand you're gonna have to learn new things

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and I think most people are willing to do that.

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I think it's still hard, but you've got to learn

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new things. I think the challenge that most people don't anticipate,

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and I think is usually where people get tripped up,

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is you have to actually unlearn a bunch of things

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because oftentimes the the strategies, the skills, the capabilities that

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got a team to a certain level, if they don't

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let those things go, it's going to hold them back, right,

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So they're ality to let go, to delegate, to take

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on new leadership styles, to you know, not micromanage, to

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build systems rather than direct you know, directly involved in things,

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you know, communication, data collection, decision making, like, all that

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stuff becomes fundamentally different. And if you don't let go

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of the way you've done it before, you're going to

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get hung up. So I think scaling leadership is probably

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number one for me. And then after that, right obviously,

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kind of all the processes and the systems and you know,

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how do I, you know, systematize business more so that

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I can make it scalable and repeatable. It's that's kind

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of the second area that I think companies get hung

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up on.

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Absolutely, I definitely see the validity of both the approaches,

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because if your leadership cannot decide, then of course you

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know you need that captain at the home that can

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take the organization to the next level. Now, you mentioned

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a couple of things over there. You mentioned that either

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learning new things and growing. So in today's fast pace,

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somebody could say that, okay, like you know, if you're

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allowing time for somebody to grow, versus you bring in

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somebody who's already very experienced in those areas and can

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hit the ground running, what would be the choice between

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the two.

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So it can be kind of complicated in terms of

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the factors go into it, But I think fundamentally the

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things that I look for is what is the timing right,

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Like how much time do we actually have to be

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able to either grow or train or develop people internally?

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What is the I think the cultural fit side of

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it right? So when I look at leadership, one of

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the things we look for is kind of the context

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in which leaders can be successful in. And so I find,

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you know, leaders can be highly successful in one context.

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You change their context and they can fail miserably. And

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we want to look at what's the pre so in

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working with someone or considering a candidate that's highly successful

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in a particular context, we need to look at what

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are the activators that help them in that context, and

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what is the new context and is enough of that transferable?

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And so the classic cases, you know, you find high

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powered executive that's done very well at a very large

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company and then you bring them to a earlier stage

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growth company and you know, they just can't operate because

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the context that they're operating within is just too different

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for them. They don't have the skill, the resources, they

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don't have the systems. You know, they don't have the

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things that they needed or allowed them to be successful.

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So we really need to look at not only as

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someone be successful, but what is the context they were

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operating within and is that transferable into the new environment.

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I would say that's the kind of the biggest one

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that we look for in those cases. And generally, like

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what is the cultural context that we're operating within and

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how well is the organization embraced new members from the outside,

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and you know, is that going to work in this

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particular context. Sometimes we have to run some experiments. Right,

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I got on a big fan of you know, having

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an A, B and C, and like what I call

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horse racing, right, like being able to play two things

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out at the same time and then see which one

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is doing better. And so that's sometimes the case, like

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we want to both bring in an oxide candidate put

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them into a position, but also be working and develop

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people internally and then being able to give us six

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twelve months of data and performance before we have to

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make a decision like that.

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Yeah, that's that's definitely a powerful approach because even in marketing,

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as we talk about a B testing, and that's usually

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a good way to go about it. Now that's said,

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as you mentioned about that culture is the key whether

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they're the right fit or not and if the context

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works for them or not. How do you go about

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Let's say you've brought in a new CEO and and

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I'm sure dislike any other human beings, that make mistakes,

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So what are some of the mistakes that they end

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up making?

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So for new CEOs coming into a new organization, you know,

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I think it probably runs two gamuts. One is they

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move too quickly and the other one is they don't

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move to they don't move quickly enough, right, So you know,

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I think there's a little bit of an art particularly

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you know, anytime and executive, whether you're coming in with

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a team or department or coming in to run a company,

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How to Build a Company That Outgrows You?

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