What Reality TV Teaches Us About Trust, Resilience, and Authenticity

0:00 The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests and not those of W four WN Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsement for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any questions or common should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W four WN Radio. This is Beyond Confidence with your host d W. Park. Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional, and financial goals? Well? Coming up on ZVO parks Beyond Confidence, you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers who have steps into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and are living the life they want. You will learn how relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.

0:52 Moving your career business forward does not have to happen at the expense of your personal or family life or vice versa. Learn more at www dot Gvpork dot com and you can connect with div ants contact Dants givpark dot com. This is beyond confidence and now here's your host TV. Park Good Morning listeners back on Tuesday. So just want to share like Amazon DC this past weekend and vent and saw cherry blossoms just so beautiful. Yes, on one hand, there are allergies from pollen, but at the same time that you experienced from nature, it is so wonderful. And when we talk about reality and TV and all of that, so on one hand, there's nature and then we have the reality of ourselves and that and that's where we are going to go in today and talk about it.

1:49 So I hope, well, while you are enjoying the outdoors that you are also being careful with jeez, let's get started. Welcome doctor Stevens. Hi there, nice to be with you, Nice to meet you, and good to have you on this show. So let us know. How did you get into reality TV shows? Well, it was a little unusual. I'm a psychologist. I started out as a regular psychologist working with adolescents and adults, but I also got into the business side of things and was involved in psychological testing, and we set up a company that was automating psychological testing, and along the way, I got a call from a colleague who had an unusual request. We had developed something that measured emotional intelligence, which was brand new at the time, and he wanted to know if our test, our emotional intelligence would work in an unusual circumstance and turned out to be was that he was screening applicants for a show that I never heard of it all the time, but it was called Survivor and we all know that show today. So I initially got involved helping to do assessments for Survivor than the Apprentice through my colleague, and then I got

3:21 more directly involved in shows as they developed, and reality shows grew like mushrooms. Oh wow. And a lot of people are kind of just kind of talking about reality TV shows. It's because it's happening in real time to real people. People are very much engaged. So can you kind of tell us that why reality TV may be more revealing the psychological aspects of human beings than what we all think about it. Yeah, reality TV to me is like a psychological laboratory. You know, I get to do things that I couldn't do at a university setting, you know, the ethics committees wouldn't allow you to do those things, but lu because they're unsafe, but they didn't have the proper protections around it, medical care, psychological care. So basically we're conducting sort of experiments with people in real time. And that's what makes it so exciting that we get to see it's almost like a mirror of society, but it's blown up. You're under pressure, you have to make decisions quickly, you have to form relationships, and we learn a lot about how people react in these situations that help us understand things that go on in our real lives. And again, I see it as kind of a mirror of what goes on in the real world.

4:39 So tell us how the whole process works, because I'm curious now. Well, it starts with casting or screening, and for the popular shows, there's often thousands of people who want to be on these shows. There's a big draw to being part of it for a number of different reasons. So I'm involved in that element of a casting making sure it's safe for the people who do get selected. I'm also involved in preparing them for what they're going to experience when they're on the show. When things get out of hand, or if they get overstressed. I help them during the production, and I debrief them once they finish, once they're eliminated from the show, and sometimes do follow up down the road if that's required, or I will refer them to someone. So there's a number of steps that I will help walk them through on the shows.

5:31 But basically, you know, the shows vary. There's dating shows, there's competition shows, there's social interaction shows, talent shows, there's a variety of different reality type shows. But you know, they all share some common things, and one of those is that you're performing under pressure one way or another. And what I've identified is ten archetypes, ten types of almost like personalities that people take on when they're in these shows. And again, these archetypes reflect some of the things we do in real life. And that's whether we're leaders or whether we're just trying to get by day to day. We share a lot of these common sort of traits with what we see on TV.

6:21 Absolutely, so share with us when you are talking about that casting that you know you are making an effort. You're looking at how how they will respond under pressure, Like you know, that is the main criteria So how do you go about selecting people? What are some of the criterias? Well, casting you know, it's a lot like maybe casting a Broadway show. You want different characters. You know, good shows very diverse. We get people from different backgrounds, socio economic backgrounds, different gender identities, different all kinds of different beliefs, conservative, liberal. We sort of mishmash people that wouldn't ordinarily encounter each other in real life. And that's the other thing that makes it so interesting when you mix all these people together who've never met anyone like the other kind of person before. How do they interact? How do they deal with that? And then you add on to that the pressure of a competition. So are they going to cooperate?

7:22 Are they going to compete? Are they going to fight? Are going to work together? All of these are elements that go into making us want to watch what happens next to these shows. It's all the human element help people, and the emotions are real. You know, people talk about reality TV being fake, but it's not. The emotions are not fake. Emotions are real. What's set up? Are the situations right? We'll put them in a situation where we set up a competition, that is set up, but what happens next is real. They cry, they get anxious, they yell at each other. Those emotions have to be real. They're not actors. They're behaving the way that the situation almost demands them to behave.

8:06 Ah. That is because so many times when these are set up shows, it's had to know what's reality and what has been staged. So what you're sharing is that these emotions are real and now there's definitely competition, and that competition could be whatever the amount of price there is or whatever the reward there is at the end of it. Yeah, something very key point that you know whether they will collaborate, whether they'll do so during these high pressure and high stake competitions. What have you observed in terms of trust and loyalty in building relationships.

8:47 Well, you know, the people who are able to build trust and loyalty are the words who tend to go further in the game and maybe even win it at the end, because if they don't trust you, they're going to get rid of you. They're going to throw you out. If they think that you're backstabbing or that you know that you're not loyal to the group, then they're going to dispense get rid of you. And you know, it's almost like what happens again in real life when someone at work is not loyal or not trustworthy, we tend to exclude that person. We maybe we can't get rid of them, but they're not close to what's happening. They don't know what's going on in the organization. The same thing here. You have to build trust, and that's why some of the basic elements are important, like empathy, flexibility, some of the elements of emotional intelligence that we've been studying for years are really significant in these situations, just like they are in real life.

9:47 So are you at liberty to share any stories where you have seen this in action. Well, we see the action all the time and all the shows basically, yeah, we see people who lose it, who get emotionally frustrated. You know, in a cooking show, for example, one person who wanted to assert himself as the leader. It's not always good to tell everybody you're the leader, but this person wanted to make everyone know that they thought they were the leader, and he would. They had a competition to make a five star breakfast, top top of the line breakfast and they put them in teams. So as a leader of the team, he was the first out to pick ingredients for this breakfast.

10:31 And what he went and did was he grabbed the whole bowl of eggs, right, and eggs are the main thing for breakfast, so none of the other teams were able to get eggs, so they were all furious and going crazy. Even his team went to what are you doing, Like why are you doing this? And he acted like, well, I'm just trying to make my best breakfast and this is what I need. So we call that the chaos agent. That's someone who just you know, by doing what they do, caused chaos with everybody else. And again in the office, you know, you might get somebody who does something, plays the radio too loud, or does something that creates chaos for everybody else, and that person usually gets themselves in trouble and often doesn't last very long in the game.

11:18 M hm. And you also mentioned about Survivor, which is such a very different show. I mean, I haven't watched a whole lot of it, but you know occasionally I have watched that. So those are pretty drastic conditions and extreme conditions. How do things play out over there, and how does emotional intelligence work well. Again, those conditions add to the stress, right and the fact that you're competing with others that you might get eliminated. This might be your last week or day on the show. Emotional intelligence plays out because those people who are strong in things like empathy and assertiveness, they know how to work with the people to understand what the other person's needs are. If I know what's important to you, I can let you know that I believe in that, and I can help you, and that will help me stay on longer. If I don't care about you, I only care about myself, then you're not going to care about me, and if you have the opportunity, you're going to get rid of me. So the conditions, it just amplifies everything in organizations. You know what we've done training, and some of the best training are simulations, and those simulations add an element of stress. For example, in one type of simulation it's called paper planes, where you have people set up a factory where they're buying, they're building and selling airplanes and you set up different departments. But then you put pressure on where the quality control isn't working or

12:51 they can't produce enough airplanes. You add pressure to the game, and you find that changes the whole dynamic of what's going on. And what you want to see is how do people deal with each other under that kind of pressure. Do leaders emerge or do people just go with each other's throats and fight and everything falls apart? And that's where you see real leadership buildings. As psychologists, we call it emergent leadership. You throw everybody together and they're all equal. Right at work, somebody's called the boss, so we expect them to be a leader, even though they may not be a good leader. But in this situation, everybody starts out equal. But what we always find is somebody emerges as a leader according to everybody. Everyone sort of agrees, Oh yeah, Johnny, I'll follow Johnny. I'm not going to follow Bill, but I will follow Johnny. And it's emotional intelligence is found to be really important in distinguishing those emergent leaders. Like what causes someone to be seen as a leader by everyone else versus somebody else who's just arrogant or who just self centered and narcissistic, and nobody wants to follow that person. Again, just like in our office at work, we have people at work that we can't stand, we would never want to do or follow them.

14:14 Sometimes we have to because they're designated as a boss. But there may be other people we work with that we really like and get along with, and if they ask us to do a favor, we're more than happy to do it with them because we trust them, we have that connection with that person. The difference is in reality TV, it's compressed, the pressure is amplified, the time frame is shorter, so you see these things play out in ten weeks or less. Everything happens, the leader emerges, people get excluded, people get included, Teams form alliances, build, all this stuff happens in a very short time. Yeah, and that is such a powerful example that you gave about emergent dators. And this is not different in organizations either, because as I've helped organizations, there could be a product deadline that they're releasing the product to the market and they have to bring it in and then sometimes what happens is in the last few weeks something breaks, and that is they have to go and fix the features and it's going to impact the whole timeline and all that. So what you're talking about runs very parallel to the leadership and real life situations, not only, and sometimes it can be as simple as things happen, Like just now, one of my clients was just kind of talking, you know, they had been planning about something, he was fully involved, and something happened at his home where he

15:45 had to rush to his father's side. So life is like that as well. And that's why you call it reality TV show and talking about you said something about emergent leader and so many times, you know, we'll give it the name of gravitas or executive presence. What are some of the characteristics of that emergent leader. Well, one of the things we've found to be really important is the idea of emotional intelligence. The person who is an emergent leader is the person who listens to everybody else, maybe doesn't always agree with them, but knows how to use empathy, knows how to understand what's important to them. So I may be able to say to you, yes, I know you want this right now, I understand what you need. I want to help you with that, but we have to put that off till later because we have to do something else first. So that ability to empathize, to understand what people want. Another important thing is assertiveness, the ability to not be afraid to say what you want, where you want to go, or where you want to lead the team, so that everybody knows. It's kind of like an openness you mentioned trust before. Trustworthy leaders are those who are are open right, they're transparent, We know what they want want. If they have a hidden agenda, we lose trust. So being able to express yourself and express your emotions. Emotional expression is another part that we find.

17:12 If I'm upset about something, I want you to know I'm upset about it. I don't want to just hide it and not tell you, and you'll never know that you did something wrong that way, and you'll always be second guessing what I want from you. So if I can express myself clearly and be assertive and tell you what I'd like more of and maybe less of, and I understand where you're coming from, so I take your needs into account, these are the things that build emergent leaders. We see them just rise to the top. It's amazing when you see it, especially in such a brief time period. In a matter of a week or two, people start to rise up because when they use these skills, everyone else sort of gravitates towards them and ignores the self centered, selfish, over competitive kind of individual.

18:02 Yeah, no, definitely. What you said was very powerful that you can be assertive with empathy because you're telling them that I understand and we need to do this later, or letting them know what's important to you, or understanding what's important to them. It's finding that balance. And so many times what happens, Stephen, is that people are thinking that, oh that if I'm being assertive, I might be seeing seen as being pushy or as being aggressive. What would you tell our audience about it. Well, the way that we've looked at it, and there's been a lot of psychological research on it, we look at it as a continuum. So on the one end, you're very passive, you don't tell people what you want at all. On the other hand, you're aggressive, right, you're over telling you too much in an unpleasant way. In the middle, we call it assertiveness. An assertiveness is being able to express what you want and if you may not agree or may have different beliefs than I have, I can still be your friend and get my point across.

19:07 And that's what it means. To be a sort of it's a skill and it's a skill that you can learn. It's been taught to people that I can you know, I can say, I know what's important to you, DeBie. I know you want to go home as soon as you can because you have something to attend to. But it's really important for the group of the project if you stay in extra ten minutes, and we'll all benefit if you help us get this project finished in that period of time. So it's being able to ask you to do something, taking into account what's important to you and hopefully getting your cooperation. Yeah, so there is a very black and white distinction over here. You're not saying that, hey, you're part of the program, you have to stay for that ten minutes.

19:52 What you're doing is you're acknowledging what's important to the other person. If you were to dissect what you said, not only you're acknowledging, then you're also giving them the why you're not just coming here and like saying command and control. It's about what's needed and why that cooperation is needed. And that's completely a different ballgame. Where you're respecting the other person, you're building the trust because you're letting them know why it's needed. So so many times what happens is that a lot of people are not trained, especially in today's AI world. It's so important that we keep on building these skills. They're going to be sent backs, whether it's reality TV show or real life world or organizational world, and they're going to be sent backs. So what are some of the key elements of building that resilience to write through that?

20:45 Yeah, So for resilience, there's three main components we see that are for resilience, or heartiness as we call it. One is the ability to have commitment, which is have a purpose, big global purpose, like what is your goal? What are you there? What do you stand for? What's important for you? If you're always ground it in your purpose, that makes it a lot easier to deal with the bumps of the road. You're not going to get thrown off because you know your purpose is big, is to get this whole project done, and there's going to be bumps along the way. The second component is control and what that means is understanding what I can control versus what I can't control. I can't control the weather, but I can put on a raincoat, right, So understanding that difference is really important. And third is what we call challenge.

21:38 So you give me this project, and my god, it's overwhelming. That's not the way I approach it. I see it as a challenge. I step back and instead of my emotions taking over, I think of it as a game as a strategy. Okay, this is the goal, this is what we have to do. What are the best way? What are the pieces I need to put this puzzle together? Three c's are what helped make us more resilient, make us get over those bumps in the road, those those difficult things that we have to deal with. The ability to be committed to have a big goal or purpose in life, purpose what we deal with, control what we can control versus what we can and challenge. The ability to see this as a game to be played, something that I can do and I can win at.

22:27 Yeah, what a great way to look at life. And when you're looking at that, you know all those three pillars bring you together to live the life most joyously and with a focus on growth rather than the downward spiraling because and it's so easy for us to spiral down the negative abyss, because so many people just look at life as if they're looking down into ABIs. So as we talk about that, you talk about purpose, you talked about being assertive, and during all of these times, you know, like authenticity has been a new word that has kind of being a buzzword for a lot of years, that oh, yeah, you know, I need to be authentic, I need to be true to myself. And then there's also the perception of the image that they're building. How can people balance between the two.

23:25 Yeah, between the image that you want to project and being authentic, true to yourself. I think it's important to be true to yourself, to be authentic and not to act as though you're someone or something else. It just doesn't seem to work. So I try to be as much as I can the same person when I'm in the office as when I'm talking to you, or when I'm at home or wherever I am. And that's part of your values. I think it's important to have very firm values, things that you believe in. Getting back to purpose. If you have strong values and you operate from the values, then it's much easier for you to be authentic. And you know, it transcends even when you make small decisions.

24:07 It makes it easier for you to make those decisions if you have strong values that you're operating from, because then you can always judge does this fit Do I feel good? You know, your stomach gets a feeling when you have to make these decisions and you want to get that extra test. Does it feel good? Is my stomach queasy? Or am I okay with this decision? And it's whether it fits into your core values. So I think authenticity is really important because if you don't have that, we go back to trust and you start losing the trust. And especially if you're a leader, if you're a fake, if you put on a fake you know everything's wonderful, everything's great, you know everything's worth and it's not. People will see through that and they won't trust you. They'll learn not to believe you. So it's important to even acknowledge when things aren't going well and let people know that, but you're going to deal with it. You don't want to be pessimistic. You want to be optimistic, but you want to be honest. So you give the message that things aren't going as well as we'd like right now, but we're going to put something in place to help deal with it. And we want you to be part of the solution, and we want you to contribute ideas in what you have to contribute to help us get through this difficult time.

25:25 So why is it so uncomfortable? You mentioned that it's important to be true to yourself, and yet we see so many people don that. Mask because they're afraid, you know, they're afraid to look weak. They're afraid to not look you know. And it's not true because in the old days, we did a I wrote up a sort of a trajectory of leadership going back one hundred years and one hundred years ago. You know, Henry Ford or some of those leaders were strong. They never change, you know, going down with the ship is what they said. You can any color or car you want, as long as it's black. They would never change their mind once they said something. If they're backtracked, they would be weak, and they didn't want to look weak to the people. But that's all changed as we progressed, you know, more modern leaders, Bill Gates and other leaders have showed us that hey, we can change direction, we can do things differently. When the world changes, we can change with it.

26:27 You know, Microsoft avoided going dealing with the Internet For years, they didn't want to invest in the Internet as a company. But once things started moving in that direction, once Netscape came out, they changed their whole philosophy and turned it around so they were able to be flexible and move. And I think now we're showing that good leaders show their vulnerabilities because they're not superman or superwoman. They have vulnerabilities. And the people that we respect and that we leave and we trust can show those vulnerabilities. They can admit they make mistakes, they can show that they don't know everything, that they rely on other people to help them out.

27:12 So what we're seeing is a real shift in leadership. And those masks are not working. They're making people think that you're dishonest or untrustworthy. So as you mentioned that leadership has shifted, people's expectations have shifted. Coming back to the reality show, we see a lot of authenticity over there. Like you said that, you know, they are in that compressed pressure and under that they have to make decisions. So tell us, like, you know, some of the practical lessons that people can take away from that is how to make those decisions that high pressure And then how does that authenticity payout.

27:57 So one of the things we've seen is that that ability to connect with people is really important building allogancy right. Another thing is ability to strategize, to sort of plan ahead, to think of, okay, you know if I go here, or you know, what's likely to happen two steps from now, one step, two step, three steps. So, but being willing to change, because flexibility is also really important. Sometimes people come on to a show and they figure they got this roll down I'm going to do. They have blinders on this is how I'm going to behave and you throw them a curveball right, and they're lost. They don't know what to do. So you have to have flexibility. You have to be willing to change, change on a moment's notice, change direction of your plan or who you're aligning with and so on. So these are you know, some of these factors are really important. Ability to connect with people, build relationships, be flexible, ability to change quickly, strategize, look at the big picture and think of where you see yourself going or how to be you know, those are some of the key things. Another thing that also helps is having a sense of humor. We like people who make us laugh, right, we're not as threatened by those people. If you're always serious and always competing. Again, trust comes into it. Is that person only looking out for themselves or do they care about me at all?

29:21 But if I can make you laugh and I'm funny, then you're going to care more about me, right, because I'm doing those kinds of things that other people enjoy. So those are some of the factors I see help people, you know, get ahead of the pack. Yeah, and that definitely makes sense. So you alluded to our that there are archetypes. Do you want us share, like you know a few which are common and prevalent to the most people. Sure. So everyone, of course is familiar with the villain, right, the person who goes in there planning to stab everybody in the back. And sometimes the villain gets ahead and wins.

30:01 But if people catch on to the villain, they get rid of them, they want to throw them out. The other person we see a lot of we call the hot mess express. This is that person who's emotional all the time. They're crying, they're yelling, they're just emotional about everything. Again, sometimes they're useful, but a lot of times we don't want those people around us because all they do is have emotions. We have a social butterfly. Somebody wants to be friends with everybody, right, they just go but they don't really build alliance with anybody. They're not really close to any one person. They're so busy being social butterflies with everybody, and people catch on to that and they say, well, you're not really my true friend. You're friends with them as well, So they sometimes get caught and get thrown out.

30:49 There's the underdog, right, the person who's very quiet, and we see them in the office too. They're quiet, you don't suspect anything of them, but they're listening and they're watching. And then, you know, give them some time. After a couple of weeks, they come out, you know, and they know so much and they play the game really well because they've been paying attention to all the things going on around them. The chaos agent, the person who just causes trouble without even meaning to. Right. They like the person who took all the eggs. He just thought he was taking it for himself because chaos among everyone else. So these are some of the art types that we see in many of these shows, and actually that's what makes them interesting. We want to see how these characters play out with each other against each other, how do they fit together?

31:43 So you have given us a lot of food for thought. Are there any of your favorite leadership lessons or any takeaways that you know over the years that you've developed that you've seen work beautifully over and over again that our audience can take and appline them immediately. Well, there's a few things, probably. I mean one I mentioned which is empathy, which is listening to other people. Just take before you speak, take a little extra time to listen to where they're coming from before you say anything. Another element that we found is important as what we call self actualization, and what all that means is really that you're willing to learn, that you're interested in learning, whether it's reading, whether it's watching YouTube videos, or wherever it is you want to learn more. You always feel that there's more you can benefit from it. And even on the shows, I find those are the best contestants, not the person who comes into a cooking show saying I'm the best cook in my city, I'm going to win this thing, but the person who says to me, oh, I can't wait to learn from the master. Those judges are people I've admired, and I don't even care if they hate my cooking. If they teach me something, I'll be so happy. And you see these different types, and they often get ahead because they're willing to take criticism and learn from it and move further up the ladder.

33:02 So be empathic, learn self actualize, and you know, be willing to grow as part of it, and be assertive in terms of what you want and need. I think those are some key leadership things that we've seen in real life and on reality shows. M H. And tell us about the books or a book that you might have written. So I've written several books. The EQ Edge is on emotional intelligence, and it's a real how to book. What are the factors of emotional intelligence and how do you develop them? Which is a really important part. How do you develop empathy? How do you develop interpersonal skills? How do you develop assertiveness? So in my book The EQ Edge, we show you that we give you exercises ways that you can improve all those things. My newer book, Heartiness is when I mentioned about the three c's, how do you deal with difficulty difficult situations in life? How do you become more resilient. Some people talk about post traumatic growth.

34:04 We talk about heartiness, which are actual skills using control, commitment, and challenge to make you deal with life better, to get over life's bumps in a much more successful way. Mm hmm. And where can people find it? They can find it on Amazon dot com is probably or any many bookstores carry EQ Edge and Hardiness. They're available in a lot of places. And then can they connect with you? My website is www dot Stevenstein dot com and my books and some videos and podcasts and a series of things.

34:50 Are there? Are there any of the thoughts messages you'd like to share with her audience? I just sort of want people to know that reality TV an all junk. You know, a lot of people I think it's just, you know, frivolous pastime. But there are some benefits if you learn how to watch it, be a more sophisticated watcher of it. You can learn from it, and hopefully in the near future will have a new book out called The Psychology of Reality TV that will actually go through these archetypes and teach you how to use them in your life, to watch them, recognize them when you see them on TV, and what you can take away from them because they all have a good side and a bad side. So if you learn how to use the good side of each of these, it can probably help you a lot at work and at home.

35:41 Yeah, no, definitely, I think so what you mentioned about that each side has a good and a bad, so from you can learn from the good and from the bad you can learn what. Not to do exactly exactly. You know, you could be a strategist, a great strategist, but at the same time you're not paying attention to other people. You're ignoring them because you're so busy with your own strategies, so you have to be Again, it's good to have strategy, but it's not good to ignore other people or not pay attention to them. Or you could be the comic relief person being funny all the time, but then you don't take anything seriously, so you could lose on that count.

36:22 So there's a good and a bad to each of these art types. They can help you or they can sink you. It's a matter of learning how to navigate them. Absolutely. And you mentioned about like strategy, that you know, if you're not paying attention to other people, if you're not listening. If you're not considering other people, then your strategy may not be right because you're not considering all the factors. So thank you for giving us the wisdom that gets today. I'm sure, just like me, our audience will find it very, very valuable. Any last minute thoughts, Oh. Thanks very much for having me. It's been a pleasure speaking with you. Oh.

37:04 I totally enjoyed that conversation. Thank you, Doctor Stephen. So wonderful. Audience. I'm sure that you know you'll head out to Amazon check out doctor Stephen's books because I can definitely see that there's going to be a ton of value in it. I myself will be heading that way after this show. And thank you for being part of our show and let us know how we can serve and support you to live the best life you can because you deserve it. And thank you on for making the show technically possible. Be well and take care until next time. Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence. With your host d V Park, we hope you have learned more about how to start living the life you want. Each week on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who've experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships during Beyond Confidence. Div Park's share is what happened to her when she stepped out of her comfort zone to work directly with people across the globe. She not only coaches people how to form hard connections, but also transform relationships to mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the life they want. If you are ready to live the life you want and leverage your strengths, learn more at www dot dwpark dot com and you can connect with vat contact at dvpark dot com. We look forward to you're joining us next week