Nov. 12, 2024

Beyond the Bottom Line: Growing as a Thoughtful Leader

Beyond the Bottom Line: Growing as a Thoughtful Leader

What does it take to move from managing tasks to inspiring organizational transformation? In this episode, Divya Parekh, John Ruppel, and Dr. Ken Russell share insights from their leadership journeys. They explore how intention, empathy, and...

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What does it take to move from managing tasks to inspiring organizational transformation? In this episode, Divya Parekh, John Ruppel, and Dr. Ken Russell share insights from their leadership journeys. They explore how intention, empathy, and self-awareness can elevate leadership from transactional to transformational. Whether you're starting out or deepening your influence, tune in for actionable steps to become a more thoughtful leader and drive meaningful change. Ready to level up?

Beyond Confidence is broadcast live Tuesdays at 10AM ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Beyond Confidence TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not

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those of W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliate.

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We make no recommendations or endorsement for radio show programs, services,

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or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability,

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explicit or implied shall be extended to W four WN

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Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any questions or common should

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be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing

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W four WN Radio.

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This is Beyond Confidence with your host d W Park.

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Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do

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you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional,

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and financial goals? Well? Coming up on Dvaparks Beyond Confidence,

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you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers

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who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and

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are living the life they want. You will learn how

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relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.

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Moving your career business forward does not have to happen

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at the expense of your personal or family life or

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vice versa. Learn more at WWA. You don't divpork dot

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com and you can connect with Dvant contact Dants dvpark

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dot com. This is beyond confidence and now here's your host,

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d W Park.

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Good morning listeners. As you'll know, this is the favorite

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day of my week because I get to be here

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and spend time with you. So want to start off

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with a beautiful kind of story today. I was just

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returning back from New York. I was at the airport

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waiting for a month back to come in, and I

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could see the escalator going up to the departures and

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a woman fell and it was amazing. This gentleman had

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a backpack. I think he was traveling back from Patagonia

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or from South America, like based on like the conversations

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that were floating around, and he just dropped his backpack,

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the hiking bag, and it was amazing to see he

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just dropped it and rushed up the escalator to help

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the lady. So, like you know, it's almost like kindness

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is within his heart, so you don't have to look

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where you can be helpful to people. You can be

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helpful in any form or shape. So we didn't get

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to know a lot more about it, but I think

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so the lady was taken care of. So the goal

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is that take that one hour out of your time

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every month and help others, be kind to others. And

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for those of you who have got our books, I

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want to thank you from the bottom of my heart

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because season of giving is coming in and with the

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partial profits we do help out entreprenours dot org. So

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if you have not bought it, please buy our books,

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either Expert to Influencer or The Entrepreneur's Code It and

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I'll tell you that you'll walk away with a lot

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of factionable tips and insights and wisdom. And also I'm

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excited to share that I've started writing my book because

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there's so much fear around artificial intelligence and how can

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you bring the leadership into it. So I've put my

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head down and started the writing piece of it, and

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as the book evolves, I'll be keeping you updated. Let's

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invite your guests in Welcome John, Welcome, Doctor Kim, good morning.

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Hi, good morning, Welcome, Thank you.

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So we usually start out from the early years in life, doctor,

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can do you remember a moment or a person that

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left a positive mark on.

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Oh, you know, thank you for even asking that. So

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often when we do these things we don't get asked

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those kind of questions. So, yeah, you know, and a

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lot of these names kind of circulate in your head

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throughout the year, depending on the situation. Just recently, I

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thought about my Aunt Polly when I was a child,

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and how we used to go to her house and

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visit and it was a very rural part of the

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town that I we lived in, and she had a

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garden in the back. And you know, because I was

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a kid growing up in the city, my garden was

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the grocery store or whatever my mom would buy in

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a can, you know, that sort of thing and typical,

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you know. But my aunt Aunt Polly, no, she had

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a garden, and so when I went to visit her,

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she would say she called me Kenny. She said, Kenny,

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go out there and get us something. And I had

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this wonderful experience just going out there and just having

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the choice of picking this tomato or that squash or

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that cucumber or whatever it was. I got to explore

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a discover. So she had a huge effect on me

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by allowing me to just kind of explore the backyard garden.

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Oh yeah, nothing like nature in It's so precious.

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How about you, John, Yeah, so what's coming to mind

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for this one today is in the spirit of being outdoors.

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Is Ernie Caldwell. He was a scout master and I

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was in the boy Scouts way back when, and we

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were doing nighttime orienteering. So I don't know if any

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of you guys had been out there trying to read

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your compass in the dark and orientate by the stars

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and all that. It was a very interesting first time

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I had done that in the dark, and so I

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was getting nervous, I was fearful. I was, you know,

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embarrassed and shamed, all that good stuff that goes along

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with not being able to achieve, you know, what you

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think is as expected of you as a kid. And

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Ernie came up, or mister Cable came up to me

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at the time and said, hey, let's you know down,

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calm down. What's what's going on when you thinking? And

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he asked me what was I thinking? And I felt

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safe enough to share that with him. He because, well,

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that's natural, you're out here in the dark. You've ever

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done this before, And so then he walked me through

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and call me do that, And so that experience is

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something that I tried to do, you know today is

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that realizing that you know, helping leaders or helping others,

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is that in that moment, you know they may be

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in the dark at that very moment, So it's just

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give them a safe passageway in back in the light,

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and then from that they'll be able to start saying, Okay, yeah,

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this isn't so bad. We can we can get through that.

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I got this. So that was that what to me

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was really impactful.

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Yeah, beautiful, beautiful stories because these are the moments that

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shape us as we grow, and it doesn't matter. These

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are the moments that we can create for our teams

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and in organizations where we can shape the culture and

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shape the world course of tomorrow. So John, you know,

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as you all grew up, what were your primary interest

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and what was the initial direction that your life took

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you in.

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So for me, it has been leadership. Believe it or not.

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It was crazy. You know, I think back at it

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is being a boy scout in the troop. The story

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with that is, you know, we the adults are running

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the troop, and my buddies and I looked at each

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other and said, we can do a better job, and

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we don't like the direction the adults are taking this,

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and so you know, we asked the scout master what

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just happened to be my dad by the way, and said, Dad,

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you know this is what Vince and Greg and John

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and John and you know and all this, this is

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what we want to do Steve and all that. And

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he said, okay, fine, I'll take us the adults will

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take a step back, give us your plan and execute.

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And so, of course we knew it all back then, right,

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We all knew at that age, and so we cut

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our teeth, making mistakes, learning and realizing we don't know

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it all, but we do know we do know something

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and coming together as a team. And so that to

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me has been the whole thing of you know, going

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back to the basis of the book and just you know,

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leadership in general is you know, how to do that

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and how to be transformational in moral and ethics, you know,

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ethical in your leadership and helping others how much you ken.

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Yeah, It's funny. When I was a kid, I was

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the one who was always in the library reading everything

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I could. I mean I just read everything and paid attention.

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I guess you would call me a sponge. I tried

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to absorb everything and then when I moved to California

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from North Carolina when I was eleven, it was an

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entirely different world. So it just everything exploded. The sensories

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of living in San Francisco as a child, It just

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was so different than living in Charlotte, North Carolina.

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Right.

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But what that did for me is that I learned

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how to listen, and that became a big part of

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what John and I do in our work today is

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how do you take the time to just pay attention

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to everything that's going on around you? Not what you're

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currently working on or not just what's happening within your

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close proximity, but what are the sounds you're hearing, what

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are the noises, what are the what are the smells?

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I mean those kind of things that just kind of

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help you are imbued with all the things that are

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going on in your life at the moment, and uh,

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that kind of kind of shape who I am today.

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Yes, definitely very powerful. So how did your John, yours

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and doctor Ken's life intersect and how did y'all come together?

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So we have this great connector friend. Her name is Kate,

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and you know, Kate's is a tremendous connector and so

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we met through her and then I'm ken can tell

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this story better than I can, but it just to me,

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it was just it was very interesting. Is that here's

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a person that's like, Okay, wow, we're really like mine.

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Wow.

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He gets he gets me, but he also gets my

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quirks and he also gets where, you know, where I'm

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coming from in the vision, right, the long term, strategic

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big picture, because I always say work from the big

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picture context, and so he was able to He's able

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to understand that big picture context of what I have

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and then then be able to shape it or you know,

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guide me, give me advice or you know, disagree with

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me where needed, and just you know, we had this

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complimentary and it's just it's really been very cool. Is

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that it's sort of like this type of we're filling

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each other's gaps.

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I think I think that's right. I think the complimentary

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is probably the best word. And you know, Kate got

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us together. You know, I think she got us together

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because we were both former Cisco people, right, so we're

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the technology thing kind of brought us together. But John

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was working on his other book at the time and

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he asked me to contribute to it. So we started

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talking a lot about intuition, and we started talking about

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you know, what's innate versus informed and all that kind

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of stuff. So then the discussions became less about technology

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and more about life and leadership.

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And so as y'all started connecting with each other. And

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you know, it's like this, if you have two dishes,

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or like a stack of dishes, whether you're pulling them

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on from a dishwasher or whether you're putting them in

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that drawer, then going to cling and clang. So I'm

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sure that, like you said that, you know, and there

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were some quords, even though complimentary. How did you all

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resolve those little disconnects? Well?

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I love that analogy. And you know there's this new

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TV show that's out there called The Bear Right that

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the guys forever changed how I look at dishes because

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I would used to just get a dish out of

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the cupboard and that would be it. But now I

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actually clank it to see what sound it makes. So

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when you say cling and clang, it's like, oh my gosh,

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you're speaking my new language. But John and I are

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much like that. I mean we're not we don't agree

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on everything. Certainly, our backgrounds are very, very different. But

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what I love is that that kind of creative dissonance

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that comes along with to just discussing. I like to

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say that everything starts with the connection, right, and it

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started with us with Kate and the connection that we had.

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Those connections lead to conversations, and that's where the magic

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happens because those conversations turn into John you want to

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pick it up from here, collaborations.

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Exactly exactly and that and that's where when you collaborate.

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That's the thing too, is a lot of people think

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I got to be in the same page to collaborate,

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I got to be in the same ideology to collaborate,

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I got to be in the same you know, way

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of thinking or perspective. And that's not true. It's actually

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the collaborations our best when you actually have opposing views

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or have totally different thoughts, are coming at it from

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different directions. And that, to me is the key. Is

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that going back to communication or having the conversation. That's

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one thing. You know, people that I work with, leaders

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I talk to all the time. You know folks, individual

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teammates that are having challenges that just have the conversation.

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That's the first question I ask have you had a conversation?

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And nine times out of ten the answer is no,

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and why not? And then there's an awkward silence, right,

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But I let that be awkward because I want to

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be uncomfortable and that's that you know, disorientates them a

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little bit and makes them think, oh, well, why didn't

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we have that conversation? Intend to me, that's really the

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that's the key to it is getting the initial like

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Ken said, al o, Ken, here, have the conversation, and

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then that's going to get you to collaboration, and don't

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feel like you have to be the same to collaborate,

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you know, get in more, get in a couple more

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ideas if you want to also you know, some opposing

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views or alternate perspectives and collaborate that way. And that's

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what I found to be value. Yeah, it is getting

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when people are able to see it differently than you do,

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and then it makes you think, disorientates you a little bit.

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That's a really good point that both of y'all have made.

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And so many times, you know, my clients will say that, oh,

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I paint her and on the slack because or it

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could be Microsoft teams and there's so much any tools

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that what happens is that the meaning can get lost

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in the written word and the translation is gone. And

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so in your experience, both of yours experience, what is

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it that keeps people from having that conversation? Why the hesitation?

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Well, I think you're kind of circling around the big issue,

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and it's the communication tools we use, right, because we

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kind of fall into that trap that we have these

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tools that we use that are routine for us. My

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grandmother would have a newspaper, Okay, my son uses TikTok.

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So social media has kind of supplanted what we used

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to have for traditional ways of communicating and that sort

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of stuff. My mother would get on the phone and

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she she'd call everybody. But now we carry these things

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with us, right, we carry these things we call a

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phone with us, but do we use them as phones?

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It was last time we actually had a call on

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this thing. Most folks just text. So John and I

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are our communication of choice has been, in fact texting,

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that's what he and I typic they do. And then

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these things like here these these if a podcast re

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zooms or webexes or things like that. So it really

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depends on the audience and also to be a generational

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audience that you're you're working with, you know, framing the

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workforce that we exist in today, there's at least five

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workforce generations working simultaneously concurrently. So a good leader actually

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knows the audience and uses those tools that the audience expects.

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And the one thing I'll end into there is, you know,

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from a different perspective on this is think about how

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much we're on autopilot throughout our day. You get up,

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you have your habits, your brain, your body cont you know,

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your body consciousness or your your body itself. You're so

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used to doing things routine. Now is your brain really engaged?

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And so that's where you know, throughout the day, be

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conscious of am I following my habits or am I

295
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truly listening and hearing what's going on or observing or

296
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feeling what's going on around me? With the individual person

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can say they're my teammate, can say oh, yeah, I'm

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doing fine today, John, that's great, but what I'm feeling

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from them is totally opposite. And then be willing at

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that point to have what I call the two c's,

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the you know, courage and commitment to speak up and

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say hey, glad you're saying you're great, But dude, I

303
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don't feel that you're feeling that great, and you know,

304
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what's going on? Can I help or what's you know?

305
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And has to be out there again just being able to,

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you know, be conscious of the fact that you know,

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you're you're not on an autopilot, really really observe what's

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going on in the moment, being the now. Some people

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call it mm hmm.

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So I'm going to bring up a tough conversation because

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what has happened is that in our quest for not

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hurting people's feelings and in our quest of like aligning

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people's space, what has also resulted, fortunately or unfortunately that

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I've found is that oh, what if I say that

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and the person gets displeased, or of what if they're

316
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not open to it? And what could be a normal

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like you know, even twenty thirty years back, they're like, hey,

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you know, I just I'm seeing it. And then when

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a person says no, no, no, I'm good you could

320
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call them out versus no, people are like, oh, you

321
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are invading this invisible line. And so that's such a

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you're seeing that things are not right, you want to like,

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you know, ask, and yet somebody is hesitant. What's a

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good way to approach that situation?

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You want me too?

326
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Okay?

327
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Right, So so what I do is I go back

328
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into you know what we talk about that is being

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that transcendent leader in the book the upidate of the feeling.

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You know, what's what are you feeling around you? Can

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you get above the fray? And so the approach with

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that is depending upon the situation in the forum. Most

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people don't like to get called out or ask personalized

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questions and look today, so it's like, okay, take it

335
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for a moment or just you know, take it off

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to the side. And that's what that to me, it's

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you know, it's situational. But the thing is is that

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regardless if it's in that moment or I do it

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a few minutes later in a different setting where it

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won't be the person, can you know, can be more

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have more of an opportunity to open up or be

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be forthright. The point is do it right and that

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and and don't be afraid right. A lot of people

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we have this ideology work what you know, what I

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think you're hitting at or going towards is we have

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different an ideology work. I mean, look what we just

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went through with our election cycle, right and the stuff

348
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that we're going through now, that's all happening, and you know,

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it's impacting us on an individual to individual basis. And

350
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so what I what I hope happens is that, you know,

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moving forward, is that we can all say, hey, you

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know what, let's let's be individuals. Let's be you know,

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let's can care for each other, have some compassion, have

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some empathize, which is part of that's a key. Empathize

355
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is a key element of a lead to be a leader,

356
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and lead to lead listen and empathize.

357
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Sure, yeah, I think John's got it and he's nailed

358
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it on this thing, this idea of interpreting and taking

359
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the time to in fact listen, you know, when people

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are when you know, twenty years ago, as you said,

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it might have been okay. So you made me think

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go back to you know, my wonderful aunt Polly that

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I was mentioning before. She probably would just you know,

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hate living in twenty twenty four. I mean, she probably

365
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would wouldn't even recognize it in some respects. I mean,

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the news, all the craziness going on, she probably would

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just just push away and retreat. But in other ways,

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what she taught me, even all those years ago, is

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still valid today. And that's love, you know, you know,

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lead with love, you know, lead with love in your heart.

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And I think that's what really helps. I think people

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through the ages kind of communicate depending on their situation

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and as John said, the ideologies that shift and change

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and mutate and all those things. So I think to

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answer your question kind of succinctly, Viva is the I

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think you listen, you pay attention, and you use that

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time and I'll give you the first mnemonic from the book,

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the first acronym from the book, and it's a listen, learn, interpret,

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shape and then you can transform and then you can

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evolve and then you can nurture L s t E

381
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in Right. So I think that's the most important thing.

382
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You listen, you interpret what you hear, and then you

383
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shape that for where you are in that situation.

384
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Absolutely, and sometimes recently and this popped up in my

385
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head was because recently one of my clans came in

386
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and said, like he's a manager that I can see

387
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that something's not right with my employee. But I'm to

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see because like you know, she has previously said that, oh,

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you know, I feel unheard and unseen. So I said

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that this is a perfect time for you to kind

391
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of jump in and say that listen, I'm sensing because

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what happens is with the remote work, it's hard to

393
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even pinpoint. So I told him, like, as you said, listen,

394
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and I said, you're doing a great job of listening.

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The key is what you could tell her is that

396
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I'm sensing something is not right. I just wanted to

397
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let you know that I'm here for you if you

398
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want to talk. So even if somebody doesn't want to talk,

399
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we can create that say, psychological space for people, so

400
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people know that they're cared for, that they've got somebody

401
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that they can go to. So great points. And you

402
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:55.559
brought up about the different types of leadership like transcendent,

403
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and you've also talked about transformation, So can you tell

404
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us what different types of leaders there are? And I

405
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:03.559
know you've covered that in your book.

406
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So yeah, since John covered the first the other two,

407
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I'll cover what we call we consider the first one.

408
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When everybody kind of comes into a leadership role sort

409
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of the same way, it's more of a transactional role

410
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that is you know, I do something, you do something

411
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for me, I do something back, and then you know,

412
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we all get paid for it, or supposedly we do, right,

413
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So the idea is that we kind of exist on

414
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a transactional scale. Now that never really goes away. I mean,

415
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if you're a leader, you're going to have transactions. That's

416
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just how it works. You have folks that work in

417
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your organization, you're responsible for certain things. It's just that

418
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you add layers onto it and you become more deep

419
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as a leader, and you become a little more nuanced

420
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as a leader. So this idea of becoming a transformational

421
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leader and then again a transcendent leader is where we

422
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go with the book. I think a lot of folks

423
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will readily accept the fact that you've got a transactional

424
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portion of your leadership style and you've got a transformational style.

425
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But what's different about the transcendent piece is that it's

426
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a little more aware. You know, you spend a lot

427
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more time being aware, and instead of just making harsh

428
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decisions or transformational decisions that can go you know, forty

429
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:18.279
five degrees this way or ninety degrees that way, you

430
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can actually do one or two degrees of discerning, right,

431
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So this idea that I make a small change here,

432
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so I have a conversation with this person and then

433
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I let them go, and then you know, six months

434
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later they're far away from where they were headed, but

435
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they started out just a small, small, little one degree

436
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vector change, you see. So I think that's probably the

437
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heart of the three leadership styles that we cover in

438
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the book transact, transform, and transcend.

439
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:51.759
Yeah and all those yeah, yeah, I just well, when

440
00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:53.799
I go with this one is is that you know

441
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:55.920
Ken set A key point there is that when you're

442
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in a transcendent leader, you're more aware, right, and it's

443
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in And there's two things as a leader is you're

444
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going to be called into different situations at a moment's notice.

445
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So you may have to be that transactional leader and

446
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be in a transactional type of mindset, and then a

447
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few minutes later, the next meeting you walk into ten

448
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steps away. You now have to be this transformationalist or

449
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the trend even a transcendent And to make that jump,

450
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this is where you have to internalize inside of yourself,

451
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annoying yourself pretty well and be able to pick up

452
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on the situation. Read this situation read the environment, read

453
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the people around you, and so when you go into

454
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that situation, you can provide what the organization needs, where

455
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and when it needs it. And so your ability to

456
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switch between the modalities those three main modalities of leadership

457
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is critical. And then that gets back into for the

458
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transcendent as being more aware is you're more in touch

459
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.319
with here, what's in your heart? Leading from love Again,

460
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.880
that's where Candid comes in the metric for being that

461
00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:01.119
thoughtful leader. Can I lay my head on the pillow it,

462
00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:03.359
you know, on my pillow at night to go to

463
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:05.960
sleep knowing that I've done everything in my power possible

464
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.799
to lead from love for my heart with the reverence

465
00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:12.640
for life? And then did I have to make people apologize?

466
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:15.200
It's that simple? Did I you know for the way

467
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:17.359
I said, what I said, how I made them feel,

468
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.519
how I made you know? Maybe something I you know

469
00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:23.519
I did? You know did and you don't want those

470
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:27.440
DIDs right, So, Candid, and to me, that's really the

471
00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:30.039
hard part because it is going back to what you had.

472
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:31.839
You know we talked about little bit earlier, is that

473
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:35.119
in today's world and some environments and some cultures and

474
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:38.640
corporations or even inside the family unit. Some family units,

475
00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:41.799
it's really hard to be candid and you know and

476
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.359
finding that you know, coming from here, it's it's hard

477
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:46.759
to do with the environment around you.

478
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.039
Absolutely, and I want to These are some really great

479
00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:54.720
points that you're talking about, and the key point that

480
00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:58.240
really resonated with me was lead with love. And what

481
00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:02.480
happens is that even in some cultures like not like

482
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:08.880
whether it's organizational or family, because every family has its

483
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:11.599
own culture and two different people bring you know, from

484
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:16.160
different backgrounds, can bring their own cultures as well. The

485
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:23.480
key is understanding people that like another situation where somebody said, oh,

486
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:26.920
why can't I just call out someone like that? And

487
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.920
the idea is to understand when you're talking about that

488
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:34.960
listening piece leading with love and listening to understand is

489
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:38.799
that how that person has been raised having that empathy.

490
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.319
You know, doctor ken As, you mentioned that if you

491
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:44.759
have empathy, then you know that this is how this

492
00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:48.440
person has been raised. This is a young generation. The

493
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.519
situations and the trends have shaped them, so if they

494
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.960
are not raised to have that culture, they're not going

495
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.640
to be able to see it. So when you create

496
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:02.920
that and when you are leading with love, what happens

497
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:08.960
is that that person is open to positive candor and

498
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:11.160
the same thing like where you're just talking about, Oh,

499
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:15.839
I cannot have the conversation. You'll be surprised how people

500
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.319
can open up and are willing to work on themselves.

501
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:20.000
Have you all had any experiences like that?

502
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:23.279
Yeah? I think. I think as you're talking about that,

503
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:26.759
there's so many things we can explore with with those thoughts.

504
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:31.359
For me personally, you know, when I moved to California

505
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:33.359
when my dad was there, you know, it was a

506
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.799
brand new family. My stepmother was from mainland China, right,

507
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.920
and she would take me to Chinatown in San Francisco.

508
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:43.000
And I was this little kid with little little white

509
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:47.640
kid from North Carolina. And I was instantly accepted because

510
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:50.559
I was with her and she would show me around

511
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:52.400
and I got a chance to kind of move around

512
00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:56.319
and play majaan with the old men and the culture center.

513
00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:58.960
It was wonderful, right, But most kids don't have that,

514
00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:01.559
right and most people, as you kind of talk about it,

515
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:03.960
these experiences, you need to create room for some of

516
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.440
these experiences. And I'll bring it to modern day because

517
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:12.359
as we come into a world where anxiety is so

518
00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:15.839
high right now, with so many people and a lot

519
00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:20.720
more folks have realized what neurodiversity really means and how

520
00:28:20.839 --> 00:28:24.480
learning capabilities and learning styles are very, very diverse. I

521
00:28:24.519 --> 00:28:28.519
think making room to listen, making room to empathize, making

522
00:28:28.599 --> 00:28:33.799
room to absorb, very very important tools for a thoughtful leader.

523
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:35.920
Yeah.

524
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:38.799
What you triggered with me with that question, Devio, is

525
00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:44.720
what we call the disorientating dilemma, And it's basically the

526
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:48.880
reason you're disorientating people. So they're used to growing up

527
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:50.880
one way, or they're used to something, and then all

528
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:56.599
of a sudden they become disorientated. That disorientation and sometimes

529
00:28:56.599 --> 00:28:58.599
you know it's at the surface, but really I'm talking

530
00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:01.319
about when you get disorientated and rock to your core,

531
00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:05.559
like your fundamental belief structure. If that gets if you

532
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:08.279
have a tragedy or something happens and you get hit

533
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.799
with that, that's going to make you really question your

534
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:13.759
fundamental beliefs. I know that's not really the question that

535
00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:15.759
the way you phraise the question, but that's the part

536
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:18.240
of it too, though, is that whether it's that really

537
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:22.319
fun deep down or whether it's at the surface that disorientation.

538
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:26.279
To me, that's so important because it gets you out

539
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:30.680
of your space. I mean as a kid, I remember

540
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:35.079
several experiences like my dad owned a radio shack, and

541
00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:38.519
so my childhood was much different than any of my

542
00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:41.720
friends because I was going to work, I was doing

543
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.000
I walked from school. At the end of school, I

544
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:46.799
went and take the bus home. I'd walk to the

545
00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:48.319
store and then I'd work the rest of the day

546
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:50.279
and then close up the store with dad and go

547
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.519
home at night. Take it in. And we just did

548
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.920
a workshop last week for a really big corporation and

549
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:00.920
we put those leaders into a disoriented dilemma in a

550
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:03.680
workshop and it took them five minutes ten you know,

551
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:06.759
I'd say five to seven minutes to get reorientated. But

552
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:09.720
the beauty of it was they reorientated as a team

553
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:12.480
around the context of the question we were asking, and

554
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:14.880
then they gave some really great feedback for what they

555
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:17.799
need to be successful moving forward. But that came out

556
00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:21.359
because one person thought we meant this, another person thought

557
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:24.160
we meant that, and in their conversations from the two

558
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:28.079
different perspectives, information came out that would not normally have

559
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.200
been given. And that was again why I think this

560
00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:35.480
disorientation piece is that as you as an individual with

561
00:30:35.559 --> 00:30:39.319
people around you, or if you're leading a team, take advantage,

562
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:44.920
you know, create those positive or psychologically safe disorientations and

563
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:47.920
then see what happens and you know that comes out

564
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:49.319
of that, use that to your advantage.

565
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:55.519
Absolutely great points. So y'all have made and so this

566
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:57.839
kind of brings us back to you have made. You've

567
00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:03.039
talked about that different situations and the same person to

568
00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:05.119
be different type of leaders. So do you all have

569
00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:08.839
a story that you can show or instances where a

570
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:13.880
person individual can go switching during the day or from

571
00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:17.440
being a transactional to a transformational to being a transcendent leader.

572
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:20.400
Yeah, you know, I'll let John kind of talk a

573
00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:21.839
little bit more about this in a second, but I

574
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:24.359
at least have to mention that one of the reasons

575
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:26.160
that we came up with a book and the way

576
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.119
the book kind of emerged as it has is we

577
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:34.000
left room for stories, as you mentioned, because we thought, okay,

578
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:35.519
well we can we can. We can write a lot

579
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:38.440
about how to be a transactional leader, that sort of

580
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:41.400
stuff in here, but we kind of kept a special

581
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:46.759
space for first person kind of reflections of where across

582
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:49.400
our own careers and lives, where we can talk about

583
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:53.720
stories that kind of are good examples of a transcendent leader,

584
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:58.039
for example, or a transactional leader. And I think that's

585
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:01.880
what was really exciting about the book and just how

586
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:04.559
we actually kind of emerge as thoughtful leaders in general,

587
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.599
is it's with our stories, and our stories help us

588
00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:10.119
become who we are. So, so John, I'll talk to

589
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:10.839
I'll toss it to.

590
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.519
You, Okay, Yeah, So the story that's coming to mind

591
00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:15.480
was back from my Navy days when I was on

592
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:18.799
a fast attack submarine. Okay, we're out in the middle

593
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:22.160
of somewhere, can't talk about doing stuff I can't talk about.

594
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.559
But the thing was is, at that moment in time,

595
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:28.400
I had to go wake up my Lieutenant Moyer, Moyer,

596
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:30.799
the weapons officer, at two am in the morning because

597
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:31.880
some stuff was going on.

598
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.240
And so I.

599
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:36.599
Saw what I don't what I didn't realize at the

600
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:38.599
time is that I was about to experience the three

601
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:41.400
modalities within about to two minute time frame from this

602
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:44.039
from this man. And you know, and that's what sort

603
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:45.680
of you know, we laugh about it now. I didn't

604
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:47.160
put this story in the book, but it's you know,

605
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:49.759
what I talked to. So what was really interesting was

606
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:54.880
waking them up. Okay, it's very transactional, right, Patty Austin Rupel,

607
00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:55.960
What are you waking me up in the middle of

608
00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:58.440
the morning for? It is better be good. You better

609
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:00.599
have a solution for me, you know, and just all

610
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:03.480
that transactional type. And we got up and you know,

611
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:08.400
it was transactionally started. Then it went into he saw

612
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:11.000
that I was nervous and maybe a little bit afraid

613
00:33:11.079 --> 00:33:13.039
for what in tim and or waking up? Then he

614
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:18.519
went he automatically understood that went to transcendent and basically

615
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.519
from his heart then just said, hey, settle down, and

616
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:24.240
it's okay. You just don't don't think of me as

617
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:27.559
your weapons officer. Just think of me as a human being. Okay,

618
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:30.079
Now what do we have to do? And then we

619
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:32.319
went in and transformed, and so I said, okay, sir,

620
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:34.799
here's the data points and here's the vision and solution

621
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:37.079
I have for what you know, what the team and

622
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:38.720
I figure and what we think we need to do

623
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:40.799
and why we need your permission to sign off on this.

624
00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:44.759
What do you think? And then he gave He said okay,

625
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:47.759
asked a few leading questions, answered, okay, based on what

626
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:51.119
you're telling me, here's my vision. I concur with you guys,

627
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:53.039
all right, give me five minutes. I'll be up there.

628
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:56.119
But yes, start proceeding. You got my authority. Go. And

629
00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:58.680
so that to me when I think about that, you know,

630
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:01.599
after writing the book and now being a consumer of

631
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:06.440
the book and really you know, experiencing what we put

632
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:09.559
into the book in these ways, that story just really

633
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:12.000
resonates with me. Is one of those, you know, really

634
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:15.320
quintessential moments. I didn't realize at the time how much

635
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:17.280
has really impacted me. Yeah.

636
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:21.679
I think stories in general help a leader convey the

637
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:26.239
value to their teams because it's a you know, you

638
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:30.400
could you can make a policy change, you can publish

639
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:33.360
some sort of standard or whatever it may be. But

640
00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:39.119
it's through a story that people you know, enjoy being

641
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:43.559
a person, to be honest. So this idea of being

642
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:45.480
able to tell a story. So it's not in the

643
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:47.639
book either, But we have a new mnemonic I'll give

644
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:51.239
you now. It's called singh an acronym s I n

645
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:58.239
G S. Of course, the stories storytelling I is involve others,

646
00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:01.119
which I love John's story so much because it involved

647
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:03.920
not just his perspective, but perspectives of other folks around

648
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:07.320
that story, in that situation, and then the end is

649
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:11.159
kind of interesting. It's noticed the invisible, and that's a

650
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:13.199
little more difficult to think about. But if you really

651
00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:15.840
kind of are in that transcendent mode and you kind

652
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:17.360
of close your eyes and kind of listen and pay

653
00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:19.840
attention to everything that's going on around you, it's easy

654
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:21.639
to notice the things that you may have forgotten about

655
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:25.280
or you didn't notice before. The bird singing outside, the

656
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:27.719
lawnmower going on in the backyard, that sort of stuff

657
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:30.000
where you kind of you typically will tune out what

658
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:32.960
we always call noise or attenuate noise. But if you

659
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:36.400
start listening, you start paying more attention. And this works

660
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:39.119
really well as you're kind of walking through an organization

661
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:43.320
or you know, listening and empathizing with your team, you

662
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:45.599
start to understand and hear more, and not just with

663
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:48.800
your ears but with your heart. Right and then finally

664
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:54.320
g is you grow as an individual, you grow as

665
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:58.039
a leader, but you also grow others too. So s

666
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:01.320
I N G sing hm hm.

667
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:05.199
Very powerful and easy to remember and beautiful story, John,

668
00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:12.559
Thank you for your services, and what a beautiful story

669
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:20.000
of that, all three in one moment, and so tell

670
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:22.480
us a little bit more about your book in as

671
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:25.559
we wrap up the show. Where can our audience find you,

672
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:28.719
Where can they connect with you, whether it's through your

673
00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:32.920
website or LinkedIn, and how can they reach you, and

674
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:34.599
of course tell us about your book as well.

675
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:40.079
Yeah, so okay, so for for ourselves, if you go

676
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:42.480
to Lead the Flow on the on the banner that's

677
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.840
been uh that's going across the screen here we that

678
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:50.280
page or that specific link. We have the book there

679
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:53.880
which which links out to Amazon. But more importantly is

680
00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:56.559
you can share your story and that's really what we

681
00:36:56.599 --> 00:36:58.360
want to do, is we want to build a community

682
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:01.199
of stories and let people share with each other in

683
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:04.199
their stories. And then by sharing then we can care

684
00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:06.440
for one another and help each other. As far as

685
00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:08.760
getting the hold of us directly, both on LinkedIn and

686
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:12.360
also on that Lead the Flow website that you see there,

687
00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:14.880
Lead Theflow dot com. If you go to the team page,

688
00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:19.960
we have tied into that buttons that you can request

689
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:22.719
meeting times with us, and we have a schedule up

690
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:25.599
there at calendy. You can book some time with us. However,

691
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:26.280
we can be helped.

692
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.519
Yeah, what's been really exciting over the past several months

693
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:33.280
since we released the book, is that it's impacting us.

694
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:36.719
John kind of alluded to earlier. It's become more than

695
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:40.599
what we kind of intended. People are discovering things that

696
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:42.559
we didn't even know was in the book, right, So

697
00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:45.519
it's really great to kind of visit people. So we've

698
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:48.559
been doing some book tours. You can find the book anywhere,

699
00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:52.039
I mean Amazon, Barnes, Noble for places like that, and

700
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:55.159
you can actually request at your local bookstore, even if

701
00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:00.000
it's not a huge chain store but a local bookshelll

702
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:02.320
I just asked them, say, hey, can you get John

703
00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:04.199
and Ken to come and we'll be happy to come

704
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:06.280
see if we can visit you if we're in that

705
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.599
neck of the woods. As they say, it's been really

706
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:13.199
a wild tour. I've been down to Miami all the

707
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.239
way up to New York. John and I were in

708
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:17.400
Michigan last week, so it's a kind of a bit

709
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:21.360
of a whirlwind, quite honestly. But people can again reach

710
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.679
out to us via the lead the Flow website, which

711
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:26.360
is an excellent place to find us, or via LinkedIn.

712
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.920
We're relatively easy to find, but ask us and maybe

713
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:33.840
we'll see us in your home neck of the Woods.

714
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:38.679
Well, that's fantastic, and it looks like I'm having some

715
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:42.000
technical glitch. It happens, and this is again as we

716
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:46.760
talk about that you don't lose your cool, a good

717
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:51.119
time to demonstrate that leadership. And thank you both for

718
00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:55.280
joining us. I enjoyed the conversation and I'm sure our

719
00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:58.480
audience did it as well. And as you can see,

720
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:03.400
there's a lot to be achieved from reading the book.

721
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:08.280
So it's lead theflow dot com. Check it out and

722
00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:11.199
get the book, and I'm sure that you'll be getting

723
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:14.679
a lot of value from it. So thank you John

724
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:17.119
and doctor Ken, and thank you to your audience for

725
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:20.239
joining us. I know you can see me, you can

726
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:25.400
hear me, so you are the soul of our show.

727
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:28.039
So do let us know how can we serve and

728
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:31.360
support you. And thank you on for making the show

729
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:32.320
technically possible.

730
00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:37.239
Take care, Thank you, thank you for being part of

731
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:40.159
Beyond Confidence with your host d v Park, we hope

732
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:42.079
you have learned more about how to start living the

733
00:39:42.199 --> 00:39:45.280
life you want. Each week on Beyond Confidence, you hear

734
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:48.559
stories of real people who've experienced growth by overcoming their

735
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:53.639
fears and building meaningful relationships. During Beyond Confidence, Dvpark shares

736
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:55.719
what happened to her when she stepped out of her

737
00:39:55.719 --> 00:39:58.880
comfort zone to work directly with people across the globe.

738
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:01.840
She not only coaches people how to form HERD connections,

739
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:06.079
but also transform relationships to mutually beneficial partnerships as they

740
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:08.719
strive to live the life they want. If you are

741
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:11.480
ready to live the life you want and leverage your strengths,

742
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:16.039
learn more at www dotwpark dot com and you can

743
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:20.480
connect with vat contact at dvpark dot com. We look

744
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:22.239
forward to you're joining us next week