The Leadership Mistake That Doesn’t Show Up Right Away

0:00 The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any questions or common should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W four WN Radio. This is Beyond Confidence with your host w Park. Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional, and financial goals? Well? Coming up on ZVO parks Beyond Confidence, you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers who have steps into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and are living the life they want. You will learn how relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals. Moving your career business forward does not have to happen at the expense of your personal or family life or vice versa.

0:58 Learn more at www dot dvpork dot com and you can connect with dv ants contact dans dvpark dot com. This is beyond confidence and now here's your host, TV Park. Good morning, It's Tuesday, and I'm excited to be here, of course, so I also want to share something very exciting. Just yesterday I was talking with. One of my clients and what he did was he put a proposal in front of his chief technology officer. He actually used. One of the impact Visibility grid from my new book and this was like the AI agency. I'm super super excited about it because getting such good results. So he used that to pro post was a initiative to his CTEO and it was accepted. So just kind of thrill to share that with you. If you are looking to implement a and your business, or use God for interviews, or you are looking for adoption governance, and that's the book for you. Thank you for everyone who's got it, and let's bring our guests in.

2:19 Welcome Navid, Hello Olivia. I'm super soaked out this conversation with you today. Oh excited to have you over here. So, Navid, you have shared you have been through quite a bit of a journey and so tell us as to how did you get into the executive transitions. It's wow, you're going to go all in and right at the beginning. I love that. I have had the good fortune to work for five of the world's. Most as might companies. This is a leaders this is ge at the time when I joined them back in two thousand and five, they will literally the world's most at my company on the planet, and then bat Rush and Vodaford and Via.

3:12 Despite that, I have yet to find a single organization that gets this process. Picture perfect, which was my intrigue as to, Okay, we have CCUIT executives coming and going all the time, how. Come that nobody really pays attention to this very important process? And so I was intrigued by. The thought of, okay, why don't I become that person? Let me just go out. I went on Amazon and tried. To type in the word executive transitions, and lo and behold, there wasn't a single book I could find on the topic, which was intriguing and surprising at the same time. And that let me down the path of you know, Okay, if there's no one else who has been thinking about writing a book on the topic, I might as will be the first one to get going.

4:07 So let's rewind back a little bit. You found the gap, you found the pain point, and while you were in those organizations itself, what are some of the pain points that you saw? Yes, so some of the pain points I saw was that you know, and again without mentioning the name of the actual organization, one of these companies had a fantastic unboarding Productivita. I mean it was really they actually called it perfect they want And so if you were a new employee in this company, even before joining them, you would be sent an email from the ship Service Department.

4:48 Of HR with two three links. You could select your devices, you could select your smartphone. You would be greeted by our group CEO through a video message to say how much he is looking forward to welcoming you on board, what is the vision and mission of the company, and how you as the newly as a new employee, are going to hopefully contribute to that. And then what followed that was one day long onboarding in person program, which later in the pandemic turned into a bit of a virtual one. So that meant that every first Monday off the month, everyone who was in your heart in that month would be invited and if they didn't fit that date, they would be invited to the next Monday event. And then you had people from HR Strategy Commercial Finance Technology coming and doing thirty forty five minute bite size general onboarding training. Now, what sounds like a fantastic program. I'm sure you will agree with me.

5:47 That is nowhere near sufficient for someone entering into the C suite. So the basics of what is the strategy of this company, the basics of what is our people's strategy is probably not going to do it entirely for someone at that level, and because it requires a bit of a different thinking, and it requires a little bit of ownership, and it requires some. Expertise in this area. Most organizations, at least those that I used to work for, don't do anything in that area. They just hope that the best hire. The most expensive high they're going to make, is magically going to come out succeeding, and that's essentially what they do.

6:30 So that definitely leaves a gap. Because you have energized the person you have, I'm just going to go back to the program that you shared and they made them feel welcome, and then what happens is that between that and their work. It leaves a gap as to, Okay, who are the key players? Who do I need to interact with there? Who are the stakeholders? Where do I come in? Do I I fit in? So what I'm hearing is about the journal approach. So tell us besides, like this pain point, what is the mindset when an executive comes in in.

7:13 Terms of like the rest of the C suite people? Based on your experience. Yes, I mean it depends. I would say I have a few clients right now who and two of them have been recently promoted. And this is a particular you know, situationally, which is a whole different dynamic in its own right, right. I mean, imagine you and I are fellow coaches, We work in the same team, we have peers, we have a boss, and somehow suddenly. Our bosses, you know, considered for. A different role within an organization, something even bigger and broader.

7:56 And then you and I are, yeah, having to deal with someone from within our ranks suddenly becoming our boss. And so that in itself is a very very different dynamic. And of course there are many things that you need to think about when you want to manage your former peers, because again, the whole dynamic shifts, the whole engagement is different. But over and above that, I think what Marshall Goldsmith said in one of his books, which is actually the title of all of his books, what gots you here, what gets you there? I think this is really really important. Meaning no matter how competent, established and successful you are, or you have been avanti now there's literally no guarantee whatsoever.

8:44 But just because of that. You are going to, you know, rock this new engagement that's coming your way. And so again it comes back to trade like being curious, being humble, being open minded, not appearing as if you have got at least to answer to every single question that comes your way, not making grand statements in your first week or two into the new role, because you are unlikely to have the same view of the organization five or six weeks down the line that you have maybe in. Your first two weeks.

9:25 And so it really is a lot to take in and there are a lot of different things you may need to think about. But that's kind of the middle part of the book, which looks like, Okay, what are some of the interventions that executives can apply if they want to do this properly. But before we get there, I think we also need to spend a bit of time figuring out why so many of those executives are failing and how come that despite all the wonderful competencies and the experiences that they have, they seem to be not really to many making it successfully. Absolutely, And one of the key points that you brought up, Navid, was that a lot of people, you know, individual contributors, they excel, they take pride in their work and their top performers, and based on that excellence, they are promoted.

10:21 But now there are two forks to it. One is that they've not been onboarded or trained or had. Experience as a leader. And I call it as a leader is because manager is okay, you can have a title, but leader. Is someone who leads. By listening, who leads by modeling the behavior they wanted their employees. So they're not being trained and now all of a sudden a gap opens up. Oh, how can I intllgate all the work? Because that's how the icy or the individual contributor brain. Has been looked at that how am I showing what I'm doing? How am I bringing value?

11:06 And then of course, there's the second dynamics as to how the peers view them, because they may know or have the hesitation or resentment that I did the work. Also, how come this other person got promoted? So they're multiple dynamics. So going back to your question, let's explore that a little bit. Sure, Sure, I mean again, there are people who are better qualified than I am. Amy Gallo is one of them, who's written a fabulous how a Business review article on this so managing former peers. But if I wanted to kind of you cite some of what she's been cooking up and what I have seen.

11:46 What works is a combination of the following. So the first one is, if you are that individual who has been promoted to lead your former peers, you need to signal the transition quite consciously. So let's assume you know, de Via, you and I have been those colleagues and for whatever reason, I have been the lucky one that gets chosen to lead the entire pack. Now, so let's say we were a team of seven, and so firstly I will have to backfill my own position from you know, my own role. But also I now have six dark reports that used to be equal pierced to be. So that means that.

12:27 You know, I need to not necessarily suggesting that I need to send out an email to all of you to say under boss now, but really it's really important that you know, I have a formal conversation with all of you to you know, signal the fact that I am now in charge and maybe also shared a little about how I expect our team to proceed from here on. The first advice that anic Alo gave back when I think it was in twenty twelve and she wrote that famous article was that, you know, her suggestion was to tread likely at first, meaning I may have a ton of ideas about how I would love. To lead this team, but I am well.

13:10 Advised if I do not introduce any major overhauls right away. So if I completely throw out of the window all ways. Of working and kind of you know, sad from a clean slate of paper, that is probably not a good idea unless the team is significantly underperforming, the ship is about to hit the iceberg, and someone really needs to, you know, take drastic charge and bring about like substantial change. And then it's all about establishing my authority, meaning again demonstrating that I'm in charge. Doesn't mean making a show off my newfound authority, but it's really about taking actions and communicating in ways as to how I would like to work with all of you now as your new leader.

13:58 And one of the best ways she suggests is what we did very well at GE. It's called an executive assimilation session or a new leader assimilation, which is a structured format where the dark reports send their questions into a third party, usually a coach or an HR person, and then those questions are played to me without saying who asks which question, and in that three to four hour format, I just respond and respond and respond. And that way you know you are as a new leader. You establish higher levels of trust and if you all, you know, leave it to luck, and eventually people are. Going to figure out what's your style of leadership. And then the one advice that sounds a bit counter intuitive is to distance yourself in that moment, meaning not necessarily like suddenly shutting the door and not speaking to anyone and being unsocial and so on. But I cannot have the exact same relationship with you and the other five members of the team than I had when we were just peers, right, because again, moments like performance management, salary increase, bonus allocation, share allocation, all those moments are moments that I will struggle to explain.

15:15 Why I only give you a you know, ninety. Five percent bonus and some of your peers may have gotten one hundred and five percent. Bonus for instance. So I need to really make sure that there is a healthy this sense now that we have this kind of a new relationship. And then what you know is the general advice you pointed that out quite early in your statement, is that I may have to deal with a disappointed member of the team, or maybe more than one, because let's assume if our previous boss, who was also my boss, had been speaking to you and maybe someone else on the team and always somehow suggesting that if he is about to make a move, you are the destined one.

15:59 You are the chios and successor. And guess what, when the process was established by Jr. You may not have been even. Approached to throw your hat into grey and have a decent opportunity to really, you know, demonstrate that maybe you are worthy successor to the to the gentleman. And so that means that you know, again the advice is confronted, but do it in a humble and nice way. And so again you know things like I understand that you're disappointed. I just wanted to get you know that I consider you to be an integral and important member of this team, and I'm really going to make sure in my new position, but you have everything you need to succeed, and I would happily work with you in whatever way.

16:43 You want me to. So it's more about pointing it out and calling it rather than assuming and hoping that somehow, through my actions and through your actions, we are going to figure this out. And then the suggestion is to, yeah, make use of the new instruments. And advantages that are available to me. So again, you know I would need to if I have some kind of relationship with some of you, I may also leverage those relationships and ask for honest advice and honest input. If you and I are pretty on parer. Generally from a senior specificly, I just have been the lucky one. I would be foolish not to use you in this kind of counseling momentoring more advice seeking capacity.

17:30 Because again, if we had a good relationship before this appointment was made, then chances are you're really going to give me honest feedback that is crucial to my development. And again, the last piece of advice and this kind of a situation is to look beyond your former peers, meaning do not leave want them because obviously they are now part of your team and you are you know, they are integral to your success and you're internal today success. But really, because you are stepping up in terms of seniority and the organizational hierarchy, chances are that you also now. Need to network and look at a.

18:12 More different set of key stakeholders than if you were just a regular a number of the team. So these are just some ideas that I think are valid when this, you know, some interesting situation happens when suddenly a former peer is being lifted up to lead the team, and so. There are a few things that need to shift as well. Yeah, No, definitely some very key points over here. So what I'm hearing is that creating that psychological safety while addressing the elephant in the room that listen, I understand where you're coming from, and if I were in your shoes, I would have felt the same way. So because when you're addressing it person feels acknowledged, they feel valued, and they understand like, Okay, you know, my new boss is going to make everything in their sphere of influence possible for me to succeed. So that shifts that dynamic from resentment to being curious.

19:22 And being open about the new relationship. And also one of the things is what you mentioned was is it's important to broaden the horizon of your lens, like who are the key stakeholders, because now it's not only managing down, managing up, but literally as well. So keeping all of that. So if you've talked about a lot of different issues around that, are there any other issues that cause a high failure rate of executive transitions? Oh? Yeah, the health lency diva. This is a full chapter in my book. So I talk about the top ten biggest reasons for executive transition failure. And because I get to speak to a lot of podcast holes like yourself, one of the statements that I make is it's the functional or the technical skills that gets you hired into the executive level leadership roles, and it's the lack of the so called soft skills that gets you fired. At the same time, and so again, you know, once you step up. And you know, one of the case studies I cite in my book is one of my former mentors, and he was happy for me to cite him. So his name is Rudy Kins. Used to be CHR of BAT and it was his first CHR appointment And when he had his sort of a ninety or one hundred

20:53 and twenty day almost like a mediaar appraisal new in the role with his boss, who was the group see the time, Paul was his name, Rudy thought to himself that he has, you know, knocked all the kprs out of the park. He really believed that. You know, he's like an incredible contributor to the ex go that Paul is going to give him the biggest praise ever. He's been so thoughtful and so active and contributing. And to his surprise, it was. More of a performance improvement type conversation and not necessarily getting any praise. And what he learned during that conversation, in particular was what Paul gave him, which was, Okay, really look on the people's side, on the HR side, we're all good, right, and you know there's nothing I can give you in terms of advice or mentorship.

21:49 I think it's all working fine. My disappointment right now is down to the fact that you really consider yourself to be just a HR role. And I would like to remind you of our job titles, which is yours is director COMMA of Human Resources. And this is my expectation from any functional leader being promoted to this level of leadership, which means you are first an enterprise director and second the subject matter expect of whatever functional he represents. And they had you know, finance, HR, marketing and the various functions regulatory affairs, legal and so on.

22:32 So that was really the. Aha moment when really realize that you know, of course you can continue to continue at the HR, you know, leadership level, but really there's something fundamentally different when you need to shift into the most senior position in an organization, and that requires a different engagement with your peers, with your boss, and a different level of understanding of the business. Because, let's face it, if HR is all you can do, well, yeah, you're then the senior HAR person. That really, what is the point in having you around the table if all you can do is just HR, or just communications or just legal and so that is one of the mistakes I want to side, which is next to you know, people culture, politics or the lack of soft skills getting in a way of success.

23:24 That is another one. And then the other aspect I want to point out is down to another gentleman who wrote a book called The New CEO. His name is. Doctor Tywriggins, and he essentially took his own PhD thesis and created the book out of it. And believe it or not, v I when and you know again it's it's a similar book to mine. Just looking to the CEO lens. That's what it is. He asked or interviewed those CEOs. And I don't know the numb I think forty three or forty two CEOs he interviewed for his book. He said, what is one year after they had transitioned into the new CEO position? Whether internally promoter or externally, it doesn't matter. The simple question he asked them, what is your most biggest single regrets and why? And guess what the vast majority of those CEOs told him. The vast majority of the CEO sold him the biggest regret was not to have moved quick enough to replace one or two members of the newly inherited leadership team meaning and this is actually coinciding with a different partner piece of research from Brasselreno's associate where they interviewed CEOs for the same thing, and they cited that roughly three to four.

24:44 Months into the CEO role, you. Have a pretty good hunch about the team that you have inherited. You have had enough interactions to be able to say with a Navid has got what you need him in order to deliver the strategy on your behin And if you have severed doubts three to four months into that engagement and relationship, you might as well move fast and decisively because if you don't, and this is what differentiates the best performing CEOs from the worst performing ones, is that if you think about your reputation, maybe you may be worried that, Oh I don't want to like make too many changes right at the outset. I want to take it easy. Oh maybe Nabidi is just you know, finding it his feed, Maybe he's used to different leadership side.

25:34 Maybe I don't know him well enough, or maybe I don't want to. Appear to be like coming in and you know, killing people left right in the center, whatever it is that you have in your mind. Chances are that let's say three to six months after that initial assessment, it's nine months into this engagement, and now you're waking up to the reality that Navid really is not the. Right person for this position. And when you start to have a conversation with well, guess what, there's some kind of a performance improvement plan that you are putting in place. And assuming that the reading is going to exit in three months from now, all you have done is to lose twelve valuable months and not being able to move ahead with whatever the execution of the strategy you had in mind. And so again that is the other angle to that, which is, you know, do not come and start to replenish the entire team. But if three to four months in you have significant doubt about one or two members of your team, you may as well move decisively and move quickly to refresh or upgrade your leadership team in a way that you believe you need them to deliver the execution of the strategy.

26:44 Absolutely, that is such a great point. And as a matter of fact, one of my recent clients stepped into the c suite and it has been three months for him. And one of. The key things that we are going through as you're talking about this really really thing, is that he started coaching with me just like a few days back, and as we were working through some office hesitation, like you said that, oh, I don't want to be seen coming in and exing people out. And at the same time, it's important that he does not lose that time. The time is critical and for that it's so important to connect the dots. So one of the things that we explode in addition to what you have shared, is that if he was providing real time feedback, if he sat down and created some work agreements with each and every member.

27:43 So this way. Very human thing is that, Okay, you have the read it looks like one or two months in your job, you know that you are going to lay off someone. So bringing in that human side, giving them a month for two months to figure out, you know, where you want them to be, how you want them to respond, so they've had that chance, and also placing because he was feeling so guilty. So what started happening was that he started broviting real time feedback and the executive himself told him, I see.

28:23 Where you are wanting this company. To go and I see where I'm lacking, and they left on very good terms. He got a good executive, got a good serverance package, and he was able to do what you're sharing in a very human way. So what are some of the other ways organizations can support their leaders and transitions? Yes, so to cite a very interesting study, this was done with four hundred and thirteen cegos and it was done by Genesis Advisors. And so they asked them, how would you assess your own onboarding process? Right, I mean the CEO and the internally promoted externally high what is the level of satisfaction we have I believe it or not?

29:12 Via seventy percent? So seven hour of ten said, well, I didn't really have a structure on boarding at all, or I am completely underwhelmed by what I have to put down as my onboarding process. So this is kind of the root cause of the issue, which we also circled back on, right the olds can we ask you? And so in terms of what organizations can do to support I mean, of course, one of the easiest ways to support an incoming executive is to bring in someone like yourself or myself who's been there, done that, and who has specialized in this area. I mean, it's still beyond me. How some organizations bring leadership development coaches like general practitioners to three it's a specialist issue. And so again you know, there are life coaches, there are performance coaches, there are personal trainers, there are there are all yoga coaches and this and that. There are all sorts of disciplines of coaching. And I think one of the best pieces of advice I can give to any organization and leader is toupair the expert with whatever serves the client the most. And if there are c suite going to a transition, a transition coach is probably what is the most suitable support. But above and beyond that, I mean some of the things organizations can look into is, for instance, when they are designing this process. And I have one

30:43 of my clients is every MG Groups or LOUISB. Tom Moore Hennessy, the largest luxury company in the world, and they have nine hundred and fifty executives globally out of the two hundred and twenty thousand employees, and of course roughly thirty to forty of those executives are going to create transition at any point in time, and so they might as well set up the entire process from scratch so that those executives can get the support they need. And so some of the things that I think are considered best practice here are things like, I mean, the admin arrangements, the business orientation, the legal procedure formalities. That's a tick tick tick that should be done for everyone who's joining.

31:27 Now we're looking at. Okay, what is a most suitable way to handle this for seeming leaders. The first one is aligning expectations with the team and the boss. Sounds easy and super straightforward, I can tell you because more than half of my own coaching clients are gms or CEOs, it's never quite as straightforward as it sounds. Meaning what I often do a part of my Signation year long coaching program is to conduct six qualitative three DRED six. See time interviews on behalf of the CEO. And that means to speak to two or three members of the board and believe it or not, the v when I then ask them about what they expect of the incoming CEO, and I just collect, I don't judge, I just gather, and then it becomes a bit of a loan realist of fourteen different items.

32:20 I know already that my client will never be able to deliver all those things in the first year, So that means that I will then circle back with them on the back end of the process and encourage them to seek out a meeting with the chair of the board to really align on what are. The key expectations that they are going to work towards too. So that's the first one, and the same applies. To the inherited leadership team, right, So the team should be absolutely crystal clear on what is the direction of travel, where are we heading, what are the two or three big hairy, audicious skills or bets we are putting all our energy behind, and so on. The second thing that companies can look to improve is to organize meaningful meetings with key stakeholders. This actually happened to me the VA believe it or not. So I was in one of my newly appointed executive HR director roles, and I had already in my diary a number of meetings, some of which required me to go on a business troop. And then on the back end of those you know, two week long kind of you know meeting, and greeting and going around places in the world. When I returned, I asked my assistant who had suggested those meetings, and she said, no one.

33:39 I just set them up the way I thought it would be helpful for you. Now, if this is dedicated down to an executive assistant, I don't think that is the important, you know, process that I am speaking about here. And I think someone either in HR or from the CEO office, maybe the chief of staff need to sit down and at least for the C suite maybe c suite minus one positions to map out the key stakeholder groups and then when there's a new CEO forcoming, when there's a new CCHR coming, there is no second guessing by the EA. Oh, let's just send them around the world and have a meeting with all sorts of random people. Know, this must be a structured, you know, set of meetings because the key stakeholders have been mapped previously. And last but not least, I think this is also part of what I see oftentimes not working out properly, which is facilitating culture of familiarization meaning you know, I come from SAP and SAP you know rates leadership like this and they are expecting you to behave like this, and that's perfectly fine. And suddenly I moved to a different company called Adidas already US as we call them in the US, and suddenly nothing seems to land proper, And well, guess what that's down to this very.

35:04 Different set of leadership principles. This is down to the organizational culture. Being fundamentally different than the one that I have you know, used to, you know, deal with in the past. And so again here I think the HR person is probably having to take a lead to make sure that whoever is the incoming C suite executive digg it a an unbiased view around what does great leadership look like in this organization? What are acceptable behaviors in this sort of a culture, what are the absolute non acceptable behaviors around this particular organization?

35:45 And so by giving the incoming. Executive those insights, they are rarely to be captured in any official document. I don't think there's any HR policy to speak about those. So these are some of the ideas I have How can organizations and leaders improve their transition success and reduce what I call the risk of derailment which is made by forty percent of the total executive so four out of them essentially don't make it successfully after they have transitioned into the C suite. Oh, definitely, very powerful insights. And are there any missing or something that you'd like to share about your double diamond framework?

36:29 Oh? Wow, how much time have we got to you? We are both. Because this is I actually cheated in my book. This is technically two chapters, but it could be three and a half if you were to look at the length of those chapters. So let me just how about we take three to five minutes? Would that be okay? Good? So first thing is I I tried to make the so called first Mini Day framework work for myself three times as a senior leader, only to realize that it does not work for me and for anyone at my level of leadership.

37:10 And what I elegantly ignored was the subtitle of the same book, which Michael walk Is, the author, dropped very elegantly a few years into the publishing. The subtitle said critical on Boarding Strategies for Leaders at All levels. Now, I don't know about Ulivia, but I know one thing. And that is if a book has been written for any leader at any level of leadership, it certainly will not work for the top most senior level of leadership in any organization. Now straight fast forward to my double diamond framework. Firstly, it's a twelve to eighteen months framework.

37:50 It consists of seven unique phases, of which only one deals with the so called first ninety days. So that should be enough indication as to why a first leaning day approach is never going to be sufficient for someone transitioning at the very top in an organization. What I have then done is, and this is why it took me seven years to write this wonderful book, is to spend roughly five years researching the. Different life cycles of executive transition. So if you think of the journey as I talked to, eighteen months just to land properly and start to give value back to the organization, I have spent a roughly five years researching every one of these unique phases and what happens during that phase, what are twopical activities, but more importantly, what are some challenges and derailers that the executive must expect to come their way. And then what I do with it is I always hand it back to their leader and say, okay, Divia, Let's say if you were the CEO, that is, in coaching by me, what challenges and derailers do you foresee, even that you know a lot more about your company than I do.

39:04 What do you expect to come your way? And more importantly, let's start to you know, brainstorm and coature around some of the mitigation strategies you want. To put in place. So that's how you work phase by phase through the seven phases to then complete the journey. The other aspect of the double diamond framework is something I haven't discussed with you yet, which is the so called five seats. And so the five seeds are contexts, culture, commitment, circles, and confidence. And those five seats again I usually explain what. They are and what they are supposed to do, and then give it as a homework today, executive and say, start to think about your new context and in this position, and it may be even the context of a new company, start to think about culture, commitments, circles, and confidence and do your home work as in bullet points at each of those five segments.

40:03 Then when you come back, we are going to have a coaching conversation around how do you need to show up because of. The context being different than your previous one. How is it appropriate to show up in this new culture if you need to demonstrate that it may be different than whatever culture you have been used to, you know, demonstrate every day. And so these are just some aspects after double diamond few. I could spend two hours just speaking about this one. Absolutely, those are some really important nuggets to keep in mind, especially like you know what challenges can come your way, what can derail you, and then putting mitigation plans in place that okay, these are the potential risks. What are the options that I have? What can I put in place?

40:50 So it's not just that full thirty sixteen ninety days. What you're talking is you're talking about a sustained success that can be scaled. So very quickly I want to touch upon there is gender bias during support transitions. So what are some of the ways that can be avoided? Yes, so, Livia, this is we're just among ourselves right. When my publisher sent me a very legally avoided letter that said any more delay and this is a number you will have to pay us as a penalty, because I delayed the submission of my manuscript again just because I had received.

41:34 This new study. So this is the Executive Transition Study. It was conducted by DDI in August twenty one and I was about to support my manuscript and I saw this study, I'm like, oh, I have to bring this into the book. So what I can say is that the study did not look at this challenge specifically. It was a side finding, and the side finding suggested, you know me out that there is a clear gender gap when. It comes to executive censorship support. Right now, the gender gap is anywhere between thirteen, nineteen or twenty two percentage points. Which if you're a growing.

42:15 Statistics it is statistically significant. So there's a big difference between the two genders and what kind of supported it. And the three items where what is the percentage of female versus male executives that received a leadership skills training program as part of their promotion. What is the percentage of female versus male executives who received a form of psychometric on assessment, and then the assessment who's used in their individual development plan as part of the onboarding plan. And then thirdly, what is the percentage of male versus female executives who were assigned a form mentor in the company or a transition coach, someone who specialized in this field.

42:59 And so it is entirely shocking. To see that there is any delta in the in the male versus female support. But if I wanted to come back to a question, which is what can be done about it, it's super simple to you. I mean, if I was the HRD of any organization, I would say, okay, let's make this whatever. If we want to provide the three items, let's say to anyone that makes it into the vice president level and above. If we define executive level leadership at that level and higher, so VP, s VP, e VP. Just to make a simple case, everyone will be entitled to this and not as it seems to be the case. It's down to the negotiation power of the executive. And I can tell you one thing DVA is, having spent twenty years in HR working with many female and male executives, the male executives are much more coming forward with the demand. You know, I, oh, I'm now the s VP of whatever marketing? I yeah, well, where's my con office?

44:07 Right? I know my car allowance technically suggests that she should get this level of corp. But I'm not happy with that. I'm on the higher level of car allowance, and I know that my level of leadership suggests that I should get this much of a shared allocation, but I. Can tell you it's not going to cut it for me. So there's a lot of negotiation that goes into this appointment that's more humble experience with main executives compared to a female counterpass that seem to be much more reasonable, much more decent, and much more grounded and just lightened about the fact that they're just let the big. Promotion m I really like how you captured it, standardizing it as part of like you know, any depending on different tiers. I'm sure you know the different companies have different options for promotions and like you know, the benefits that come along with it, whether it's equity star options.

45:00 So standardizing it for every level removest that. Biases that we see because I've seen it with my several coaching clients. So that's a really great thing. I'm sure you know we could continue talking more and more so given that, how can people contact you? Where can they connect with you? And tell us? Where's your book? Yes? So, like you my book is available. Anywhere you can buy books from whether it's Amazon, Bards and Noble, your local books, or wherever you may want to get your books from. It's also available as an audiobook. It's available as a short format book. It's listed on get Abstract and all the other portals that provide book summaries.

45:48 So that's the book. It's really established. And then in terms of getting in touch with me, LinkedIn is my only real social media platform. I actually have full access to my own profile. I've a large following, and I do not use a VA. I do not use any chatbot or anything like that. I am actually genuinely responding to every single connection. Invit again. Another a large audience that is following me on LinkedIn because once a week I publish the latest thought leadership and give my opinion to that, and that's kind of the easiest way how people can find me and connect with me. Well, fantastic, it was a pleasure having a nav. Thank you for sharing your nuggets of wisdom and maybe issue all the best. And thank you wonderful audience for being part of a shore because without you the show would not be possible. Reach out to us, let us know who do you want us to bring on next? So that weekend, serve you and support you in living the life you deserve. And thank you on a tech wizard for making this show technically possible.

47:00 Val and take care until next time. Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence. With your host, v Park, we hope you have learned more about how to start living the life you want. Each week on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who've experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships. During Beyond Confidence, Vpark shares what happened to her when she stepped out of her comfort zone to work directly with people across the globe. She not only coaches people how to form hard connections, but also transform relationships to mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the life they want. If you are ready to live the life you want and leverage your strengths, learn more at www dot dvpark dot com and you can connect with vat contact at dvpark dot com. We look forward to you're joining us next week.