April 7, 2026

How Great Leaders Cut Through Corporate Noise and Lead Boldly

How Great Leaders Cut Through Corporate Noise and Lead Boldly
iHeartRadio podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconYoutube Music podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player iconApple Podcasts podcast player iconPandora podcast player iconAudible podcast player iconPodchaser podcast player iconAudacy podcast player iconSpreaker podcast player iconDeezer podcast player iconPodcast Addict podcast player iconJioSaavn podcast player iconTuneIn podcast player iconCastbox podcast player iconCastamatic podcast player iconCastro podcast player iconFountain podcast player iconGoodpods podcast player iconOvercast podcast player iconPlayerFM podcast player iconPocketCasts podcast player iconPodimo podcast player iconPodurama podcast player iconPodverse podcast player iconPodyssey podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player iconYouTube podcast player icon
iHeartRadio podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconYoutube Music podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player iconApple Podcasts podcast player iconPandora podcast player iconAudible podcast player iconPodchaser podcast player iconAudacy podcast player iconSpreaker podcast player iconDeezer podcast player iconPodcast Addict podcast player iconJioSaavn podcast player iconTuneIn podcast player iconCastbox podcast player iconCastamatic podcast player iconCastro podcast player iconFountain podcast player iconGoodpods podcast player iconOvercast podcast player iconPlayerFM podcast player iconPocketCasts podcast player iconPodimo podcast player iconPodurama podcast player iconPodverse podcast player iconPodyssey podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player iconYouTube podcast player icon

Leadership becomes unclear when pressure, strategy, and personal life collide. In this episode, Divya Parekh and Kelly McGinnis explore modern leadership—focusing on clarity, emotional intelligence, and strong decision-making. They discuss navigating complexity, building trust, and leading effectively without burnout, offering practical insights for professionals striving to balance performance, purpose, and real-world demands.

Beyond Confidence is broadcast live Tuesdays at 10AM ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Beyond Confidence TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Beyond Confidence Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beyond-confidence--1885197/support.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.240
The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are

2
00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:04.160
solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not

3
00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:07.000
those of W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliates.

4
00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:10.800
We make no recommendations or endorsement for radio show programs, services,

5
00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:13.919
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability,

6
00:00:14.039 --> 00:00:16.879
explicit or implied shall be extended to W four WN

7
00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:20.039
Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any questions or common should

8
00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:22.280
be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing

9
00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:23.640
W four WN Radio.

10
00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:29.079
This is Beyond Confidence with your host w Park. Do

11
00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:31.239
you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you

12
00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:34.159
want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional,

13
00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:38.439
and financial goals? Well? Coming up on dvparks Beyond Confidence,

14
00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:42.079
you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers

15
00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:45.560
who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and

16
00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:48.119
are living the life they want. You will learn how

17
00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:52.000
relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.

18
00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:54.920
Moving your career business forward does not have to happen

19
00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:57.520
at the expense of your personal or family life or

20
00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:01.920
vice versa. Learn more at www. Don't Divpark Dot com

21
00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:05.439
and you can connect with div at contact at divpark

22
00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:09.359
dot com. This is beyond confidence and now here's your host,

23
00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:10.400
div Park.

24
00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:14.879
Good morning listeners, It's Tuesday, and great to be here

25
00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:19.359
with you, so think you, Thank you, Thank you to

26
00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:23.079
all of you who have got our books, especially the

27
00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:29.599
new book on the artificial intelligence, because so many of

28
00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:33.000
my clients requested that I put it out there given

29
00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.079
so many changes that are happening and how to navigate

30
00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:40.599
this error of AI. So do get a copy of

31
00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:43.319
yours and leave us your review and any questions you

32
00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:47.640
may have. So today we have a very special guest

33
00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:53.480
and we'll be going into leadership and the age old

34
00:01:53.560 --> 00:02:01.840
questions as to how you can remain authentic and shine

35
00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:05.959
in face of difficulties. So welcome Kelly.

36
00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:09.120
Thank you so much for having me via.

37
00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:13.479
Oh it's a pleasure to have you so wonderful audience.

38
00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:18.759
You know, Kelly McGinnis is president at thermal Fisher Scientific,

39
00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:21.759
leading by a pharm of business, so she brings a

40
00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:27.560
wealth of knowledge and wealth of experience to us. So Kelly,

41
00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:34.520
share with us as to been so many times at

42
00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:37.280
the level where you are at. So many things feel

43
00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:42.960
urgent at a time, have you decide what actually deserves

44
00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:44.759
your attention and what's just noise.

45
00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:49.879
Yeah, so the thing I always say is urgent and

46
00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:54.080
important are not the same thing, And urgency feels like

47
00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:58.400
a spiral of everything all at once, and it always

48
00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:02.199
feels like something asked of you. The things that are

49
00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:06.960
important are actually things. It's usually less than five. My

50
00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:09.039
rule is five. There's never more than five things that

51
00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:12.520
are important at the same time, and if you don't

52
00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.759
distinguish one from the other, then you're just gonna end

53
00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:18.919
up swirling away. I always picture like a tumbleweed, like

54
00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:22.039
tumbling in the planes, because you don't really know what

55
00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.919
direction you're going to end up in. And so what

56
00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:28.439
I do very religiously is at the beginning, I'm a

57
00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:30.800
morning person. Everyone will have to do this differently. But

58
00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:34.159
every single morning, at five am, I decide what five

59
00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.120
things are important that day, and they need to be

60
00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:39.560
in the context of the five things that I think

61
00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.759
are important for the week, for the month, for the year.

62
00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:47.319
And if you sense any discrepancy or inconsistency, I reassess.

63
00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:51.159
But if you don't do that every single day, and

64
00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:53.199
also I do it for about two hours every Friday,

65
00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:56.439
then you end up just you know, going all over

66
00:03:56.479 --> 00:03:58.599
the place, and those things are not just work things,

67
00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:01.759
they're also personal things, because there's no such thing as

68
00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:05.599
separation in my mind. You've got to put these important

69
00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:09.120
things in one plane and assess them at any given time.

70
00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:14.560
Yeah. No, absolutely, you're right on the mark. And having

71
00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:19.120
that little discipline, having that little time to paradise things,

72
00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:23.680
it's super important because when you are looking at urgent

73
00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.519
important matrix which was put out the Eisenhar matrix, it

74
00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:31.079
has been put out forever, but it's that distinction that

75
00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:36.160
makes the difference. So initially, when you started out your career,

76
00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:39.519
did you have any aspirations as to wish direction it

77
00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:40.000
would take.

78
00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:46.399
When I first started, so I graduated college, it was

79
00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:52.240
rightpost dot com bust, right before financial crisis. So if

80
00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:57.079
you put your headset back to that time, it was

81
00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:00.000
not a frothy market. It was not one where people

82
00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:03.000
we're taking these big risks. And my major was entrepreneurship.

83
00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:05.439
So put me back then where I'm like, Okay, all

84
00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:07.040
I want to do in life is create a new

85
00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:10.040
business and build and grow these big things. On the

86
00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:14.800
backdrop of that timing, and it's misaligned, and so what

87
00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:18.680
I ultimately decided to do, which I've been quite successful

88
00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:21.319
in over the years, is how do I bring that

89
00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:26.759
entrepreneurial spirit into the context of bigger corporations because many

90
00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:30.680
people think they're mutually exclusive. I mean, I fundamentally believe

91
00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:34.600
they're not mutually exclusive if you do it the right way.

92
00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.079
And so while my dream was ultimately start my own thing,

93
00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.120
what I have done over the years is how do

94
00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:44.319
I create that spirit and that growth mindset and the

95
00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:50.079
transformative mindset in the context of something bigger. So what I'm.

96
00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:56.399
Hearing Kelly is that you brought entrepreneurship to your job. Absolutely, yeah,

97
00:05:56.480 --> 00:06:00.959
and then you merge the two things together, because so

98
00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:04.000
many times what happens is that, oh, I'm not in

99
00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:08.920
a meaningful job. Several of my clients, including executives and

100
00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:13.959
down to the young gen z, they're like, oh, that

101
00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:19.240
next shiny thing, the next best thing. So there's such

102
00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:22.920
a difference in that mindset versus you are, yep, I'm

103
00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:25.519
going to bring this and apply it to my job.

104
00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:27.519
How did you make that transition?

105
00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:32.560
So I think some of it is just how I'm

106
00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:37.319
personally wired. I'm I'm a disruptor by nature. I like

107
00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:41.680
to disrupt things. I'm also comfortable with getting in trouble

108
00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:43.639
once in a while, not for big things, not for

109
00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:45.399
things that are black and white, but for things that

110
00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:47.720
have like I tried something and it didn't work. I

111
00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:49.879
tried something and that didn't work, but I pivoted and

112
00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:53.800
I made her. So I always tell people, if you're

113
00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:56.800
afraid of making a mistake, or afraid of getting in

114
00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:00.959
trouble for something, or afraid of anything else these bigger companies,

115
00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:05.680
then that entrepreneurial mindset to do something different will be

116
00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:08.240
so stifled you won't do it. And so you have

117
00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:11.839
What I'm not talking about is doing like big things,

118
00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:14.879
but things like let me try this, or let me

119
00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:18.199
invest my budget here instead of here, or let me

120
00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:21.879
change this whole process to see how it works. If

121
00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:26.399
you do those things consistently, you can become fundamentally an

122
00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:29.319
entrepreneur in the confines of a bigger company. If you're

123
00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:31.560
afraid of those things, and you're afraid of just having

124
00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:34.800
a tough conversation with your boss or whatever, it becomes

125
00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:36.839
much harder. So to me, it's a bit of a

126
00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:38.160
mindset shift as well.

127
00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:44.040
M hm. And here's something right, It's important that we

128
00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:48.120
look at it because there's a moment in lives where

129
00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:52.319
strategy pressure you know, real life, so many times they

130
00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:56.800
will collide, yes, and no one really prepares you for it,

131
00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:02.199
and it's important to have growth mindset so you're able

132
00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:06.240
to kind of like, you know, work through it. So,

133
00:08:06.439 --> 00:08:10.439
given that you've been in the corporate leadership, tell us

134
00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.839
what are some of the things that leadership gets wrong.

135
00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:19.319
Yeah. One of the biggest things I observe, and I

136
00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:25.759
have observed and been in three companies, is we get

137
00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:30.680
so much vested in our experience and so on the

138
00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:34.519
one side, experience in pattern recognition is super super helpful,

139
00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:38.320
really helpful. Mine is super helpful too, but only if

140
00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.399
I don't let that be the only thing that drives me.

141
00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.840
And so what do I mean by that? If I'm

142
00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:49.720
not consistently curious about things that, even with my experience,

143
00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:54.720
seem impossible, if I'm not curious about asking people about

144
00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:58.519
it or letting them push back, I will consistently make

145
00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:06.159
decisions only based on historical information versus what what could

146
00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.559
be true in the future. And I think AI is

147
00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:13.159
actually it's gonna be the great I mean, you could.

148
00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:15.759
I'm of two thoughts. It can be a great equalizer.

149
00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.559
It can also be a great divide, making the best

150
00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:21.879
even better and making the weakest even weaker. But that's

151
00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:26.240
a perfect example of you've got You cannot replay how

152
00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:29.240
the past worked because it's just not gonna work that way.

153
00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:32.720
And so that curiosity needs to it's certain, it needs

154
00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:35.960
to override the experience. And you can still choose the

155
00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:38.639
decision based on your experience because they need to coalesce,

156
00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:40.799
but it can't be the only thing. And I think

157
00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:44.679
what some leaders get wrong is they instantly know I

158
00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:46.639
need to go do this because I saw this ten

159
00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:48.440
years ago, or I saw this five year agos or

160
00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:52.399
three years ago, whatever, that's not gonna work in the future.

161
00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:57.960
So basically what I'm hearing is that bring your own

162
00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:01.919
emotional intelligence. Yes, this was the past experience, Yes, these

163
00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:05.960
are the things. Taking a pause, stepping back and looking

164
00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:09.679
at things that what's the optimal path over here?

165
00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:10.559
What's my objective?

166
00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:11.320
Where am I going?

167
00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:14.320
Absolutely so, now, given.

168
00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:18.240
That you said something that I believe in as well,

169
00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:24.120
that a I will make stronger, more bolder, and more

170
00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:30.000
stronger and exposed or mirror the weaknesses because it's how

171
00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:34.159
we interact with it. Yes, So we'd love to hear

172
00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:36.399
your take on that in depth.

173
00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:42.399
Yeah, so perfect example. So I've been I am a

174
00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:45.799
super curious person and so I actually don't depend on

175
00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:47.679
my team to learn things from me. I am a

176
00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:50.120
big believer that you actually need to learn some things yourself.

177
00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:54.759
So I play around with all of the different AI

178
00:10:55.039 --> 00:11:01.039
related tools. Now my latest obsession is Claude Cowork. So

179
00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:04.679
when you go into that and you just realize what

180
00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:08.240
it can do, it is mind blowing. Like so it's

181
00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:10.960
making me. It doesn't know all the answers. It doesn't,

182
00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:12.799
so if anyone who expects it to know all the

183
00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:16.759
answers is wrong. But because I'm training it with what

184
00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:19.399
I know and more data and more case studies and

185
00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:22.279
more this and more, that it's getting smarter and my

186
00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:26.039
decisions are getting better. And there's plenty of people in

187
00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:29.120
my peer group and then also on my team that

188
00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:32.360
the most that they've interacted with AI so far is

189
00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:37.279
simply like a Google Chat and Chat GPT. That's never

190
00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:40.320
that's never going to take them to the next level.

191
00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:44.360
And I can't decide whether it's a lack of curiosity

192
00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:47.879
or just a lack of belief that we are in

193
00:11:47.960 --> 00:11:52.679
this moment where everything's about to change. But either way,

194
00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.720
that type of person is going to get substantially weaker

195
00:11:56.799 --> 00:11:59.720
in contrast to all the people that do the things

196
00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:04.080
that I experiencing, Like obsessing with Clod co work things

197
00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:06.960
amazing by the way, but like really obsessing about it

198
00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:09.320
and getting better and training it and just the things

199
00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:11.639
that it can do is amazing. But it is going

200
00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:12.279
to create.

201
00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:18.159
This divide, absolutely, and you're right on that because clod

202
00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:21.639
cowork is fascinating. I've been playing around with it too

203
00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:25.519
for some time. And one of the things you said

204
00:12:25.559 --> 00:12:29.840
that not sure whether it's the belief, So just to

205
00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:32.080
add it a little bit quickly and really come back

206
00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:35.240
to your topic, is that there are several stages to a adoption,

207
00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:40.639
and it's no different than any other technology that humans

208
00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:44.720
have experienced. Because as I'm helping my clients and as

209
00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:48.679
I'm helping my leaders executives to adapt it, people have

210
00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.679
to go through that. And one of the things that

211
00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:55.039
you mentioned was very important over here that highlight is

212
00:12:55.039 --> 00:13:00.120
that it's not a magical solution. What you give it

213
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:02.759
is that's what it's going to spit out, how you

214
00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:07.080
train it, and that's where that metacognitive thinking. Bringing in

215
00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:11.279
the reflexive thinking venue interacting with it is super super

216
00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:15.519
important because that's what's going to distinguish you. So those

217
00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.240
skills that were not highlighted before, now they're going to

218
00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:23.919
be exposed more. So it's very good. And then we

219
00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:27.399
talk about this brings us to trust because so many

220
00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:32.399
people don't trust AI. So, especially when leaders are at.

221
00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:35.639
The home of the ship, what do you think.

222
00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:41.480
Builds trust but actually does the opposite, especially in times

223
00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:42.200
of AI.

224
00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:48.519
Yeah, so I think the answer is just made worse

225
00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.440
with AI. But it's been true forever, which is the people,

226
00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:56.679
the leaders that don't show any vulnerability. And so what

227
00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.919
I'm not is afraid of AI. But what I don't

228
00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:04.440
know is what does everybody's work look like two years

229
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:06.440
from now, one year from now, two years from now,

230
00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:07.960
ten years from now. I don't know the answer, and

231
00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:09.960
so I just need to say I don't know the answer.

232
00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:12.320
We got to figure it out. Here's what we know

233
00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:14.399
it can do, here's what we think it can do.

234
00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:17.919
And then if we were to define the horizon five

235
00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:20.480
years and work backwards, what does that look like? So

236
00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.759
that goes back to you gotta show like leaders who

237
00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:29.440
show or think they know everything. Our complete lead is trustworthy.

238
00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:31.559
I mean they're just sure, like you have to be

239
00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.159
able to say I don't know certain things. So of course,

240
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:36.840
no leader, no, not one leader on the planet. Even

241
00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:40.440
the CEOs that run these companies know exactly what things

242
00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:42.240
are going to look like ten years from now. And

243
00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:46.200
so anybody that says with definite like definitive straightness and

244
00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.039
I've heard it, AI is not going to change jobs.

245
00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:51.840
AI is not going to eliminate job.

246
00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:51.960
Like.

247
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.879
You cannot say things like that to people. You actually

248
00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:57.919
have to say, here's what I know, here's what I

249
00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:00.360
don't know, and then here's where we go from there.

250
00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:04.159
It's the conviction and the clarity of path versus the

251
00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:06.120
absolute knowledge about everything.

252
00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:12.039
Love that and that is super like. That is you

253
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:18.279
have just went straight and addressed the matter at the heart,

254
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:22.960
because every twenty seconds there's a change. There was Sora yesterday,

255
00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:26.879
I took away Sora today. So it is the backbone,

256
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:30.279
it's the skeleton that's going to uphold as to the

257
00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:34.600
different players that we put on it. And that's very powerful.

258
00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:40.159
So during these times, people are experiencing emotional exhaustion and

259
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.639
there is a lot of confusion because as you mentioned,

260
00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:45.159
you know people are making predictions. So five years from now,

261
00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:47.480
one year from now, we can predict what's going to

262
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:52.519
be one month from now. So during these times, like

263
00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.159
if you had to put your finger on, what do

264
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:59.759
you think is making that trust between leadership and employees?

265
00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:04.159
Is an emotional exhaustion, strategic confusion or something else?

266
00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:08.879
I think it's both. So here's what I'm observing. And

267
00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:12.360
I have lots of friends who lead big places in

268
00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:15.159
other companies and also work for work for leaders. You

269
00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:17.960
see two types of leaders in this environment. You see

270
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:24.399
the ones that have pretend to have extreme levels of

271
00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:28.200
certainty and strategy and path and then they keep it

272
00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:33.399
that way forever. And then you've got the leaders that don't,

273
00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:37.759
and they're actually both wrong because and this goes back

274
00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:40.320
to my prior point, because in this day and age,

275
00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:43.399
especially with all of the different predictions and AI is

276
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:47.480
different every week, if something's different every single week, And

277
00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:51.039
so if you get my dog does this, if you

278
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:55.639
get into like chase the squirrel mentality of like squirrel, squirrel, squirrel, squirrel,

279
00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:58.320
you will go nuts. Like you cannot do that. You

280
00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:03.159
have to have a directional view of where we need

281
00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:06.839
to go and why right, big business strategy, but the how,

282
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.279
which is via a AI, really just becomes a horizontal

283
00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:14.240
to said business strategy. And you have to be willing

284
00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:17.480
to change your mind. So some leaders, I think, get

285
00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:21.799
so water, you know, so bored down in this. This

286
00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:24.480
specific thing is my strategy. I wrote it down five

287
00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:27.799
years ago, and I need to just execute it otherwise

288
00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:29.599
someone will think I didn't know what I was talking about.

289
00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:35.200
These strategies need to change evolve in the how a

290
00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:37.839
year would mean most companies do this every year. That's

291
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:40.119
not frequent enough. You need to actually look at this

292
00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:43.480
every quarter to say is this still the right path?

293
00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:45.480
And I don't think a lot of leaders do that today.

294
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.279
M hm. Now that is that is very critical and

295
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:54.519
it's important to think about it. And that's where critical thinking,

296
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:58.640
emotional intelligent steps in. Now what happens is that.

297
00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:02.640
There is this.

298
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:10.839
Understanding or assumption that people in leadership no where they're going.

299
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:13.200
But as you said, they don't. So what are some

300
00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:17.039
of the other things about leadership at your level or

301
00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:20.720
s swaite that most people completely misunderstand?

302
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:28.279
Yeah, my other favorite is many leaders assume that everybody

303
00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:32.960
is wired like them. And they're not. And my favorite.

304
00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:36.880
There's all sorts of different as you know, different measurement

305
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.720
and skill types to assess what type you are. My

306
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:42.559
favorite is the enneagram. I think it does at the best,

307
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:45.440
but what it effectively does is type you into these

308
00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:48.799
nine different types and maps how you interact with other people.

309
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:51.640
And I use it religiously with every team. Why do

310
00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:56.240
I do that because I am squarely framed as an eight.

311
00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.359
It means it's a challenger. And the funny vignette about

312
00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.160
this I love is there are two. There are two.

313
00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:04.960
There are two eights that are famous. And again we

314
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:07.519
don't this isn't confirmed, but a lot of psychologists thinks

315
00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:11.279
this is true, Nelson Mandela and Donald Trump. And so

316
00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:15.000
I laugh when I say that, because every type, when

317
00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:17.720
it's at its best, behaves a certain way, and when

318
00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:20.279
it's at it's not best, it comes off another way.

319
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.960
And so you actually need to understand yourself super super

320
00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:27.279
deeply before you can lead people. And then step two

321
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:33.400
is actually understands how people on, how people take information,

322
00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:35.799
how they decide, how they like to be coached, how

323
00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:39.880
they Because if you don't do that, you cannot lead

324
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.079
an effective team. And I think a lot of leaders

325
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.160
just don't spend the time on it m hm.

326
00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:54.160
And that is something that's important for a leader to

327
00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:57.039
sit down and think about how am I going to lead,

328
00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:59.000
how am I going to own the team? How am

329
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.960
I going to people in the fold. So so many

330
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.519
times what happens is that leadership may not have enough time.

331
00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:12.680
A lot of people want to get in front of them.

332
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:17.119
So let's say somebody is promoted now they have to

333
00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:26.039
provide quick updates and create decks for the leadership team.

334
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:31.720
What are some of the ways a new senior VP

335
00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:36.759
or a leader like that can become visible without encroaching

336
00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:38.440
too much on the leadership's time.

337
00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:45.519
Yeah, so I think from that perspective, it's brings something helpful,

338
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:50.519
and often said helpful thing is context. The C suite

339
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:54.759
leaders are not going to know everything, thankfully, because that's

340
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.400
not their job. So when you have this later, the

341
00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:01.480
layer of the SVPs and the vps bringing the context

342
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:04.720
and the clarity is super super important. I always say

343
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:08.599
this to people, even directors going up to vps. It's

344
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:12.720
your job is not to make Your job at its

345
00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:18.920
core is to eliminate or reduce ambiguity for your boss.

346
00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:22.640
It is not to give them as more data and

347
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.200
more stuff to analyze themselves. Your job is to reduce

348
00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:30.599
the ambiguity for them, which means, yeah, actually, I always

349
00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:34.240
give this perfect example. I did this myself, so I self,

350
00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:39.240
you know, self incriminating here. I when I first got

351
00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:43.079
promoted for Yeah, first got promoted to VP, and I

352
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:45.839
was moving kind of the senior executive director or director

353
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:51.640
to VP. I to impress my boss, who was, you know,

354
00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:55.720
the president of the business at the time, I sent

355
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:59.440
him like pages of decks in my analysis and data,

356
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.559
and my like my recommendation was hidden like on page

357
00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:07.480
five somewhere. Horrible. That is a horrible way to interact

358
00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:11.799
with someone who actually hired me and promoted me to

359
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:16.680
reduce the ambiguity. And so I think that is something

360
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:24.279
not everybody gets right the first few times. And women

361
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:25.039
are moving.

362
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:28.200
Up really really fast. You know, we are seeing more

363
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:33.359
and more women in leadership positions, and yet there is

364
00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.240
some gap that's going to take time. And what would

365
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.640
you say, A two to three things that you've faced

366
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.160
and overcame that our audience can learn from.

367
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:51.240
Yeah. So I've been pretty promoted pretty fast over the

368
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:55.519
over the years, have been on the workforce twenty three

369
00:22:55.599 --> 00:23:00.759
years now and even now, which is amazing because it

370
00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:04.440
still doesn't die. I always get assumptions. If someone doesn't

371
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.359
know me and I'm, you know, meeting investors for the

372
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:08.079
first time, or I'm meeting a big customer for the

373
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:12.559
first time, their immediate assumption is that I'm some junior

374
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:18.359
person there, more junior person there to you know, facilitate

375
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:22.000
or not not necessarily take notes, but make sure smooth

376
00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:24.319
running of the meeting. Okay, why is that? Because that's

377
00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:26.920
the bias we've existed in for the last million years,

378
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:29.039
and it still exists to a certain point. So what

379
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:33.559
I always try to do is make that first impression

380
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:39.319
very very good. Women don't often have another opportunity for

381
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.920
a first impression, especially if you've been promoted a little fast,

382
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:45.119
if you look a little younger, if you're whatever whatever.

383
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:48.319
The said context of that is, everybody's got their biases,

384
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:53.440
and so that first impression I really invest in, and

385
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:57.599
so that means I ask smart questions. I sit at

386
00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:01.000
the table, I come prepared. I know the client in

387
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:02.559
and out, I know the fund in and out. I

388
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:06.039
know the investor in and out. Because more more than men,

389
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.759
even and it's also important for men, don't get me wrong,

390
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:12.400
but that is super important for women. So I would

391
00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:15.960
say that that is something do not do not underestimate.

392
00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:20.720
It's important. The other thing that I that is actually

393
00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.079
a strength of women that we need to actually play

394
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:26.599
up versus play down, is women tend to be, and

395
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:28.720
there's all sorts of studies on this, tend to be

396
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:34.680
more EQ focused and EQ mature than our male counterparts,

397
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:39.039
which means our ability to read the room, to anticipate

398
00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:41.720
how someone's going to behave to anticipate who's going to

399
00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:43.880
have issues with each other, to anticipate when you when

400
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:47.960
you read a room, I can anticipate am I going

401
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:49.839
to get through my three points? Or is there too

402
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.799
much emotional tension between these people to get what I

403
00:24:52.839 --> 00:24:55.079
need done? And I pivot in the moment. Women can

404
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:57.839
do that really really well, do it because that's going

405
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:03.359
to differentiate. That's going differentiate. And then the third thing,

406
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:06.480
which you know, I grew up with everybody telling me

407
00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:09.319
not to do this, but I lean into my personal life,

408
00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:12.640
meaning you know, my team and people know I've got

409
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.720
a young son, he's three, and I've got a husband

410
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:17.160
and this because why do I do that one, I

411
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:22.559
like to have more interpersonal relationship. But also if people

412
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.640
for women, if people understand you and your context and

413
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:31.839
this and that, we will not get taxed for having

414
00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:35.400
the harsher discussion. Meaning, so what happens if I were

415
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:38.440
to just have a harsh you know, I if I

416
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:40.200
have to give harsh feedback, or I have to stand

417
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:42.440
up and say something, if I have to defend myself, whatever,

418
00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:47.240
If I just do that without the emotional context behind it,

419
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:51.119
as women, we will get labeled as difficult or hard

420
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:53.319
to work with or any of the other adjectives that

421
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:57.160
come with that. But if you invest in the personal relationship,

422
00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:00.759
that doesn't happen nearly as much. So those would be

423
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:02.799
I think the three things that I would say for women.

424
00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:08.880
Yeah, I know, being a woman, I've experienced that, and

425
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:12.319
I've also seen a lot of my women clients share that.

426
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:18.039
And providing that context is so critical because it's important

427
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:24.240
and talking about those things and being aware of it

428
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:27.559
can make life simpler. And based on you know, what

429
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:30.880
you talked about leaning in, So do you recall a

430
00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:34.559
time when you leaned in, especially when others were pushing

431
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:38.960
back on your idea, and yet you move through it

432
00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.839
you were able to bring in the buy in and

433
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:43.839
then it ended up being the right move.

434
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:51.960
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the best most recent examples, we

435
00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:56.079
were requiring a very large, very culturally different company that

436
00:26:56.119 --> 00:27:00.400
we spent twenty plus billion dollars on and I was

437
00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:04.160
at the time going to be the CFO and strategy

438
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:08.240
lead to make sure that the deal integrated well, that

439
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:11.680
we drove the right level of revenue synergies, and we

440
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:16.039
brought the culture along. And when you spend that much

441
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:18.640
on an acquisition, it has to go well. There is

442
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:21.799
no failure point. Otherwise we've got huge problems. And so

443
00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:23.759
I was brought in to make sure that worked well.

444
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:27.119
And I was getting a lot of pressure at the

445
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:33.039
time to fully integrate this business into the corporate hierarchy.

446
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:37.599
So same systems, the same HR policies, same approval mechanisms,

447
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:40.880
same everything. And I knew that was the wrong decision.

448
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.480
I knew because it was a completely different type of business,

449
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:49.400
completely different type of people organization, different culture. It's a

450
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:54.000
people oriented business versus the more core technology businesses. And

451
00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:57.400
so I stood up and said, here's what we cannot do,

452
00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:00.680
because if we do, we will break the business. And

453
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:02.400
at the time I gotten it, told no three or

454
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:05.440
four times, but I stood up like I stood up

455
00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:07.480
for it, and we did it the way that I

456
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:09.799
said to and it was hugely successful. But I know

457
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:13.640
in my core if we did it the full integrate way,

458
00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:16.000
we would have lost tons of people, We would have

459
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.559
broken the business, and the thing that made the business

460
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:20.839
good in the first place would have died a slow

461
00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:25.359
death in that infrastructure. And so you just I always

462
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:27.720
tell people, if you know and it's worth it, you've

463
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:30.440
got to push If it's just there are things that

464
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.359
I think that I will not push back on, even

465
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:35.680
if I wouldn't do it that way because it's not

466
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:38.480
that important, Like you cannot die in every hill, but

467
00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:43.000
if it's something that is extremely important, you've got to

468
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:44.839
raise your hand and stand up. But you got to

469
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.559
know the difference. And that's where we started this what

470
00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:50.519
is important versus what's not, Because if you don't know that,

471
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:55.039
all of these other leadership sub chapters we're talking about

472
00:28:55.559 --> 00:28:57.720
don't work. I mean I fully believe that.

473
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:03.480
Yeah, that definitely makes sense. And as you talked about,

474
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:08.599
you knew which battle to pick and you went after it.

475
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:15.000
So could you highlight one or two obstacles that came

476
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:17.440
up for you doing this journey and how did you

477
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:18.119
overcome them?

478
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:23.960
Oh yeah, So from the more junior people to the

479
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:28.200
senior most people, I got lots of questions like, well,

480
00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:30.599
that's not our statements, like that's just not how we

481
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:34.160
do it, and what do you mean you get to

482
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:35.960
make that? How do you get to make the decision

483
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:39.079
if you know so and so said this, and well

484
00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:40.960
if we don't do this, then this is going to

485
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:43.720
be the cost every every reason. I mean I during

486
00:29:43.720 --> 00:29:45.240
that period, I think I had to be in like

487
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:49.160
twelve different meetings telling people we're just not going to

488
00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:52.759
do it and here's why. And I wasn't like obstinate

489
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:57.160
without facts, but I had a very clear view of

490
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:02.400
here's why it won't work, and let's try this instead,

491
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:07.559
and if this doesn't work or we see a negative

492
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:10.200
cost outcome in the banner of plus or minus three percent,

493
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:12.359
then that's fine, then we can do something different. But

494
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:15.920
we got to try it. And it was I always say,

495
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:18.200
when you grow up in a company and you've spent

496
00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:22.160
your entire career inside company, which I hadn't in this

497
00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:26.799
particular example, which gave me the unique ability to not

498
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:31.119
get so mired in the detail or stuck in the mud,

499
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:34.000
so to speak, on how things have always been done.

500
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:38.039
And I think that is the thing that made me

501
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:43.039
have the context to know in my core that we

502
00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:48.519
couldn't do that full integration. M And.

503
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:56.400
You had said about clarity and conviction, and that's that's

504
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:02.400
what's coming through for me that had the conviction and

505
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:08.400
you stood fast. I'm curious if you had moments of

506
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:12.240
doubts during this journey, yeah, and yes, how did you

507
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:12.880
do with them?

508
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.960
Yeah? Because I think it's impossible if you feel so

509
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:20.000
sure about something yet everybody around you is telling you

510
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:25.759
you're wrong, You're gonna start to have doubts. It's human,

511
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:28.799
it's human nature. And at the time I was doing this,

512
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:32.759
I had been in the company only like a year,

513
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:35.200
year and a half. It wasn't a lot of time,

514
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:40.400
and so I wasn't this very well known leadership person

515
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.319
in this company. I was relatively new, and so I

516
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:48.880
knew also at the time is if I pushed this

517
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:51.480
hard and I did this and I held my ground

518
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.920
and I was wrong, I would be doing reputational damage

519
00:31:56.920 --> 00:31:59.680
to myself, most likely because I was really this one

520
00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:01.279
was on. I was gonna die on the hill for

521
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:05.039
and I was willing to do it anyway. But that's

522
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:08.880
what made me, that's what made me keep being successful

523
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:11.799
in this company is that store is promoted like four

524
00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:16.319
different times in five years, because making if you really

525
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:18.000
want to get promoted that fast, you're going to be

526
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.079
taking vets and you could be wrong, and if you're wrong,

527
00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:24.279
there may be consequences. But when someone when someone asked me, well,

528
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:26.960
how do you actually figure out a way to do that?

529
00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:30.400
Is I'm willing if it doesn't work, to face the

530
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:33.480
consequence of it. And I don't think everybody is.

531
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:39.200
Yeah, and that's the tugo war. People go through what if?

532
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:39.720
What if?

533
00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:43.119
Rather than coming back to that, you know, I have

534
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:46.799
the conviction because I'm ready to draw a line in

535
00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:50.359
the sand, then you do that. That's what's going to

536
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.200
differentiate you from others, and that's what's going to also

537
00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:56.519
help you plan the letter and allowing yourself that droom

538
00:32:56.559 --> 00:32:59.079
to fail. And so many times what happens is that

539
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:04.880
fear of failure booths mediocrity and does not allow you

540
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:10.519
to rise. Yes, absolutely, absolutely so, given that you're a mom,

541
00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:16.039
what would you say are some of the things so

542
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:18.759
many times women are scared, like, you know, I'll be

543
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:22.519
going on maternity leave, and they're even scared to use

544
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:26.759
full six months or three months whatever the company offers.

545
00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:30.440
They're scared like, oh, you know, I will not be

546
00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:34.640
caught up. What would you say to those young moms

547
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:38.359
or even older moms, doesn't matter, like wherever they're at,

548
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:41.720
like you know, whatever age the children are. Yeah, when

549
00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:45.680
they're coming back from that maternity leave, what could they

550
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:48.079
do that? It does not.

551
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:52.200
Get them to stop from ground zero.

552
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:55.160
Because those doubts can really eat you up.

553
00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:58.599
Oh gosh, yes, and they did need to. So I

554
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:05.160
took the company provided maternity leave. At the time, I

555
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:08.599
was deciding whether I should just take a little more too,

556
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:10.400
because we had set ourselves up I could take a

557
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:13.159
little more as well, even though it would have been unpaid,

558
00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:18.840
and I chose not to to only take the company

559
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.320
provided not for financial reasons, because I was scared. I

560
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:25.159
was really scared if if I just take more, will

561
00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:29.800
I become irrelevant? Will looking back now that that was three,

562
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:33.000
you know, almost three years ago, I should have done it,

563
00:34:33.079 --> 00:34:36.519
because one, you don't get that time back. But two

564
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.280
what happened when I came back is they offered me

565
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:43.119
a promotion. Why did that happen? Because before I went

566
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:47.760
on maternity leave, I organized who was going to do,

567
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:50.480
Who's who's responsible for what? Who owns what decisions? What

568
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:52.480
decision rights are they? What are we going to get

569
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:54.480
done in this pier? I set everything up. It's just

570
00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:56.400
what I do. I'm super organized, and so I set

571
00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:58.840
it up. When I got back, right, it was completely fine,

572
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.800
It was great. Everything everything happened exactly the way that

573
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:05.519
I had designed it. And so all thinking back, if

574
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:09.480
I had just taken more time out and just run

575
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:11.440
that out a little more, the team would have been fine.

576
00:35:11.480 --> 00:35:14.280
And the other thing I tell women, especially women leaders,

577
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.480
is and I tell this to men too, since everybody,

578
00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:22.519
if the team cannot survive without you for a few months,

579
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:26.440
you didn't build a sufficient team. You built a dependent team.

580
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:30.760
And so from that perspective, my fear was there, because

581
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:33.199
I think it's impossible for high achieving women not to

582
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:37.960
be fearful. But I would have been fine, and even

583
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:40.199
because of the team was able to execute on the

584
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.920
goals that iligned. I was offered a promotion like the

585
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:46.960
day I came back, and so we just and again

586
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:50.000
it's not perfect, and not every company is perfect either.

587
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:55.920
But looking back, as long as you plan it the

588
00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:58.079
right way, you got a good team, you're very clear,

589
00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:01.599
and they're not a dependent team. We've got to be

590
00:36:01.639 --> 00:36:04.639
able to feel okay to take the leave. And if

591
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:08.639
the company isn't a type of company that thinks that's

592
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:12.239
a positive, you're in the wrong company, like honestly, because

593
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:14.960
some companies are completely great and they're not all created equal.

594
00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:17.639
And so for women, I'm very big on me pick

595
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:20.320
the right company because the ones that are the right

596
00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:24.039
company are going to really support you. And also, if

597
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:26.639
you set it up the right way and my team

598
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:28.960
executed what I wanted them to in the few months

599
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:32.480
I was gone, I got a promotion. Great like that,

600
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:35.559
that's what That's what's supposed to happen in these things.

601
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:40.440
Yeah, definitely, because as you said that time never comes back.

602
00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:42.760
Yeah.

603
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:46.239
And one thing that I can even tell from my

604
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:51.480
own personal experience is that kids don't remember toys. They don't.

605
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.400
It's the experiences and the time spent with you.

606
00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:57.760
Yes, yes, oh for sure for sure.

607
00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:03.480
So as we tell talk about it, what are some

608
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:07.599
of the things that women leaders tend to or complicate

609
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:09.159
and comparson to men.

610
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:17.519
Yeah, so women, I observe, tend to be they operate

611
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:21.360
more in a checklist mindset, meaning I need to do this,

612
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:25.480
see this, show this, quantify this, do like it's a checklist,

613
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:29.960
whereas men don't operate so much in a checklist, and

614
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.920
they are more they're more confident around. Here's some of

615
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.760
the experiences I've had, here's what I don't know that's okay,

616
00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:41.039
and here's how I'm going to fill in the gaps.

617
00:37:41.079 --> 00:37:43.760
They operate more like that. Women are more When I

618
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:46.599
feel more confident in my little checklist piece of paper,

619
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:50.119
I will go after bigger things. And it's it's a bizarre,

620
00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:54.559
really bizarre framing. I do think there's enough studies about

621
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:58.280
that too. I mean one study which says it's the

622
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:00.880
it's the age old study, which is, where do women

623
00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:04.039
feel comfortable applying versus men? The eighty percent verse sixty percent?

624
00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:06.719
You know that whole thing. But yeah, but this is

625
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:09.679
broader than that. This is fully like it's even as

626
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:12.159
simple as raising your hand to try something hard, or

627
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:14.159
taking on some big thing even though you don't know

628
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:18.679
how to do it, or letting you know, finding the

629
00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:23.000
right not mentors. I think mentors are different, but sponsors

630
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:25.760
who are going to put their name on a piece

631
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:28.559
of paper and support them, women go after those things

632
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.599
far less. And so I do think that is something

633
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:34.199
that hold that holds women back.

634
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.360
And at the core of it, it is about giving

635
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:40.360
yourself to permission.

636
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:43.360
Yes it is, it is, and then.

637
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:46.960
You give your self permission comes back again to fail

638
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:51.159
and that checklist comes. Is that fear of failure or

639
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:53.880
what if I'm not good enough? And it's important to

640
00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:58.280
allow yourself to fail as you did. So, as we

641
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:04.119
are coming to the close of our insightful conversation where

642
00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:06.639
you have shed some very powerful nuggets for our audience,

643
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:12.920
what would you say our top three things that whether

644
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:18.199
it is women, parent leaders, emerging executives, or say sweet

645
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:22.800
anyone regardless we're there in their stage, could do to

646
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:26.360
become a leader yetive, transformational leader.

647
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:30.639
Yeah. I think one that we didn't talk about is

648
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:34.679
don't take it all so seriously. What do I mean

649
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:37.800
by that? It just means when I was younger, I

650
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.360
used to be so in my head about Oh I

651
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:42.880
said this in this meeting and this person's face was funny,

652
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:46.559
and they probably I created all of these stories around

653
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:49.599
things surrounding when I didn't think I did that. Well,

654
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:52.559
just you gotta get out of your own head and

655
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:56.480
differentiate the difference between stories you tell yourself and facts

656
00:39:56.519 --> 00:39:58.920
that are actually true. And facts are facts, They're not

657
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:00.920
like made up things that you think are true. There

658
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:04.119
are things like the sky is blue and my shirt

659
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:07.199
is white, like those are facts, and so I always

660
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:12.079
see that that with people. The second thing, and I

661
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:14.679
talked about it in the context of what is your

662
00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:17.840
role when you're dealing with your manager, is but I'd

663
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:21.280
say it another way, Managing your manager is one of

664
00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:23.639
the most important things that you need to do. It

665
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:27.519
is not just you manage people, You also manage your manager.

666
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:30.320
And you've got to figure out how you reduce their

667
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:33.639
ambiguity because if you don't, they're not going to see

668
00:40:33.639 --> 00:40:35.280
you as a leader. They're going to see you as

669
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:39.159
someone who just increases the complexity of their day. And

670
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:42.039
then the third thing I would say is the single

671
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:48.920
biggest thing that differentiates people that I see is curiosity.

672
00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:51.960
And you've got to be super curious. And so I

673
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:54.480
can always tell I mean, I'm going this is going

674
00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:55.960
to be a tell for people if they interview on

675
00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:58.719
my team, if I ask someone. The easiest way for

676
00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:01.400
me to tell how curious someone is is, I'm what's

677
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:05.280
your what's your favorite AI hack these days? If they don't,

678
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:09.000
if they don't know, then they're not that curious. It's

679
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:11.639
the simplest way to say. And I could and yes,

680
00:41:11.679 --> 00:41:13.880
I ask an AI question because it's the easiest, and

681
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:17.519
it's it's it's it's what, it's what's surrounding our world.

682
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:21.039
But it could be everything like finance, people who don't

683
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:24.719
understand how the product is made, or you know, engineers

684
00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:26.880
who don't understand the go to market strategy, even as

685
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:31.400
if it's basic sense really cannot elevate and so it's

686
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:34.559
really being super curious around those things. That's how people

687
00:41:34.599 --> 00:41:37.679
get to bigger leadership positions. Mm hmm.

688
00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:42.519
Absolutely. Where can people find you where they can connect?

689
00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:46.719
Yes? Yes so so best source is my substack. I

690
00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:50.079
share a lot of these learnings and observations lead with

691
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:53.400
Kelly dot substack dot com. And then I also have

692
00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:57.119
a website kellyemdeghinis dot com where I'm showing sharing other

693
00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:01.599
things and and and connection points there fantastic.

694
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:05.519
Is there anything on your mind or in your heart

695
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:06.760
that you'd like to share.

696
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:14.599
Just that I'm super positive on the workers and the

697
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:17.800
gen z and the millennials that are coming up. This is,

698
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:21.679
if anything is. If there's ever time to be coming

699
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:23.960
into the corporate world and thinking about things, it's now.

700
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:27.320
So just lean into it and take it by force.

701
00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:32.639
Well, thank you for joining us, Kelly. I totally enjoyed

702
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:37.679
our conversation and wish you all the best in your

703
00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:42.920
next chapter. And thank you wonderful audience for joining us,

704
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:45.280
because without you the show would not be possible. Reach

705
00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:48.119
out to us, let us know like you always do.

706
00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:50.920
I love that, and thank you for that as to

707
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:53.760
how we can serve and support you. And thank you

708
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:57.719
on a text genius for making this show technically possible.

709
00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:03.039
Be well, take care and go be that leader that

710
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:05.880
I know you can be. Until next time, take care.

711
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:09.159
Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence. With your

712
00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:11.800
host v Park, we helpe you have learned more about

713
00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:14.440
how to start living the life you want. Each week

714
00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:17.519
on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who've

715
00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:21.719
experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships.

716
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:25.440
During Beyond Confidence, Vapark shares what happened to her when

717
00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:27.920
she stepped out of her comfort zone to work directly

718
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:31.039
with people across the globe. She not only coaches people

719
00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:34.559
how to form hard connections, but also transform relationships to

720
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:38.039
mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the life

721
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:40.360
they want. If you are ready to live the life

722
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:44.159
you want and leverage your strengths, learn more at www

723
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:47.840
dot dvpark dot com and you can connect with vat

724
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:51.679
contact at dvpark dot com. We look forward to you

725
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:52.920
joining us next week.