Breaking the Mold: Rethinking Hiring, Culture & Workplace Excellence

0:00 The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests and not those of W four WN Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsement for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W four WN Radio, its employees or affiliates. Any questions or common should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W four WN Radio. This is Beyond Confidence with your host w Park. Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional, and financial goals? Well? Coming up on dvparks Beyond Confidence, you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and are living the life they want. You will learn how relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.

0:52 Moving your career business forward does not have to happen at the expense of your personal or family life, or vice versa. Learn more at www dot divpork dot com and you can connect with DVD contact eds dvpark dot com. This is beyond confidence And now here's your host, div Park. Good morning listeners and so thrilled to be here with you. It's Tuesday. So if you have got a books, thank you for doing so. If not, you know, we invite you to get a box, either one of them Expert to Influencer or the Entrepreneur's Garden. And today I want to talk about the kindness of one of our readers.

1:36 So what I want to share is they want to remain anonymous and I'm going. To respect that. So one of the readers heard one of our podcasts episodes and they found out that we share some of the profits with Kiva dot org. So what they did was not only they shed the book with their community, but they also don't did or keywa dot org and send me the picture of the entrepreneur that they had helped out with. So isn't that powerful getting the message across? And that's what the idea is with the books. So keep the kind of circle going helping people without strengths attached.

2:18 And let's bring in our guest. Welcome back to Dion. Good Morning, DIVI. I get to be with you. Thanks for having me, Good to have you. So we start out with a moment from your childhood or youth where you can recall either it was a person or a moment that left a positive mark on you. I would have to mention my parents. So I had two great parents, which I realized now that I'm older and a parent myself, that it's actually difficult to do. But they were pretty involved, they were engaged, they were smart, and I love their philosophy and that they allowed me to be who I was and to take chances and risks, but did not did not make me feel like I was attaching my accomplishments to my self worth I was.

3:09 I always felt loved, and that was another thing. Mm hmmm. Isn't that powerful because so many kids mm hmm. That's so near and dear to my heart, because so many people are craving that that, Oh they're seeking parents approval, and in that that shapes their whole of their life. So good for your. Parents, Thank you. And there they're both deceased now, but their legacy lives on for sure in myself and my siblings and and what I'm doing with my children and and my extended children, their friends' friends when I when I can, of. Course, And that's the beauty of positivity because just like negativity spreads, you know, positivity spreads too, just by being who you are, and you are that example for people.

3:58 So as you grew up, did you have any particular interest that you persuaded? So I kind of fell into track and field. I realized in sixth or seventh grade that I ran fast, Actually somebody discovered that I ran fast, and from there it was just I was put into track and field and I essentially competed, and from sixth grade all the way up through graduation, I was on the junior national team. The senior national team ended up getting a full scholarship to Rice University in Houston, and I can say that that was the essentially the turning point in my life in that my parents at the time they were immigrants and didn't retually have all the money in the world, so that afforded me to get an education for free.

4:40 And I think I attest my ability to run fast to why I'm sitting here with you today. That is so powerful. Now tracking can be sort of an individual sport, or maybe not so. Tell us a little bit more about that, because there's so many parents who are thinking, oh, no, I need to put my kids in a team sport or something like tennis or golf. What would you tell them? So Track and Feel is pretty unique because I ran the one hundred meters, but I also win the four I also ran the Pope by One relay, which is actually a team effort, so I have the best of both worlds in that. In that regard, I will say to parents that I think it's extremely important that your child does something. And as I said, my gift was running fast. Sometimes people play violin, they you know, anything.

5:30 As long as that the child is able to discover what their strengths are, I think that's a good thing. And and I and I would be REMISSI if I didn't share that My parents actually helped me support that. So every weekend they were take me to track meets, they were traveling, they were doing everything they could to support that effort. So I think it's important that parents definitely will will help the help their children find that gift, because I believe we all have that. And and then and also help how do you water it? How do you water the seeds? Once you discover them. MM. That definitely makes sense. That allowed the child to flourish in the area that they're good at, because what they're doing is they're developing their strands, and as they developed their streands, they're developing the confidence. So for you perfectively, like you ran track, what would you say were a couple of lessons that you took along with you to college? Oh?

6:19 Wow, you know, I was. I was very disciplined, and so essentially my job I called it the job. It wasn't a job. I didn't get paid for it, but I would get up in the morning, go to school all day, and then after school I'd be lugging my bags, go straight down to the track and train for at least two three hours, and come home. I still haven't showered, I still haven't eaten, so haven't done my homework. And I sultly did that routine for my entire high school life, and that carried over into my university days. So actually, by the time I got to university it actually felt pretty easy. In that time, I had that discipline already established, and I was I was. I had a routine down. Essentially, That's one of the reasons I love sports. It doesn't matter what format it is. It brings that discipline that nothing else can bring. And also depending on what sports you're in, not only you are learning that sportsmanship which is so powerful, which carries you throughout the life.

7:19 And along with that discipline and camaraderie and team building, it brings just so much. So now fast forward, like, you know what was the major in college and what was the rest of the journey. So my undergrad is clinesiology and health sciences, and then I did a master's degree. Actually sorry, before that, I did a teaching degree at University of Toronto, and I also did a master's degree looking at adult education. It's a long title. I'm not going to go into it. And then I did my PhD in organizational learning and development. So I see a detour that you were in the States and then you went to University of Toronto. So what was that journey like and what brought the decision?

8:07 So I actually grew up in Toronto, Canada. I was going to race there and so I went down to Houston when I got the track scholarship at RICE, and then I went back to Toronto met my husband and he was actually on his way to California, and I said, well, I lived in States, so we ended up moving to California and then we've been in the States now for probably like almost thirty years. So essentially this is my home. Got it? Got it? And so now what brought you to organizational learning? Because I can kind of see the progression that you know you were in education, and then of course that education and adult learning, it kind of moves towards that understanding how people learn and how did that. But what was it that specific that drew you to organizational learning?

8:57 So to your point, so I started my career as a classroom teacher. I taught high school. And if you've ever worked in a high school or had experienced with high school, even if as a parent, looking at the behaviors of some of the adults in the schools, they also gave a little bit of education. So it was an interesting juxtaposition to be dealing with the children in the schools and also looking at the behaviors of the adults in the schools, which sometimes they were actually one and the same. Unfortunately, I can tell you a few stories with with what my kids went through, but nonetheless they're now adults. But essentially I always had that interest in adults in adult education. What makes people tick? Why do people behave the way behave? And there's one specific incident that kind of prompted me to look at adults, and that was in my first year teaching, I inherited a class of grade nine boys who were unruly. They had gone through three or four other teachers at the time.

9:55 They were all diverse, many different backgrounds, right ethnicities, and long story short, I came into the to the classroom and I said to the kids, about thirty five grade nine boys, I said, you're having a difficult time, but I'm I'm here now. You're gonna have to come to come to school on time, pull your pants, do a good job, and do your school work, and we'll be fine. And they all did well. And at the end of the school year, one of the teachers who had difficulty with the class before I inherited came to me and said that I was only good with the kids because I was black and because I was pretty. Hmm. I said, interesting, how do you explain the fact that all the white kids did well the hispanic kids did well. I must be really pretty. But nonetheless, it was it was a pivotal moment and it wasn't confrontational, but that's what kind of led me to this idea of bias because the same teacher who essentially reduced my son of teaching ability to my race and gender always complained that people were prejudging her about about a limp that she had, And so I'm thinking, so you have the experience of being othered and being treated differently, but yeah, you just did that to me. So that kind of led me to realize what's happening with this with bias and in this exchange in the workplace. And so that's what kind of led me to look into this research and eventually be where I am right now.

11:13 Definitely, and that makes sense. So what was the topic for your PhD? Because PhD is usually concentrated. So I actually did. I created a workshop called think You're an Unbiased Teacher, Think Again, just as a result of my teaching experiences, and I created that in two thousand and two. You did it for a conference and it was accepted. At the end of it, I had like thirty five people say, Oh, I want you to come to my workplace. I want you to come to my school, my university to facilitate, and I realized that I had a budding business at the time, so the University of Georgia allowed me to use that workshop as my research methodology, and so I used that when I went there, and that's how I kind of just got the empirical evidence to so that the workshop that I created actually helps to facilitate in the cultural dialogue in a non threatening manner and to help to help kind of, you know, merge the cultures in a meaningful way. So that's that's how I got into this area.

12:14 M that definitely makes sense. And there are so many different things that pull us together then that make us different. You know, I haven't seen any person so far who doesn't want to be happy. I haven't seen anybody who likes, well if they don't like to go on vacation, you know, have some hobbies, or any person who does not want to do good by their children or by the loved ones. So given that, you know, we have so many things that unite us and pull us together rather than making us different. And of course, you know, like when we talk about the differences, we all are different.

12:56 Like I don't know about you, but when. You're going out with your friends and they have difference of opinion. We all are different and think about like how and I'm want to share this story. Like you know, I used to do a lot of leadership cams with younger generation kids and all that. So one time somebody had an experience where initially didn't think they were different, but then they felt they were different and they said, like why, So I took them where we were doing the camp. There were a lot of. Flowers, and I said, Okay, here's what I want you to take a look at. Here are different flowers. Tell me which one is prettier, which one is less, which one is more. And they said, this young girl probably twelve or thirteen years old, seventh or eighth grade, oh, all of them are beautiful. And I said, that's the sentiment you need to carry in your heart. And I've seen her grow up and she stays in touch, and I can tell you that, yes, other people can think what they want to think. It's how you see the world through the lens that makes a difference. And I know that you had mentioned about how you see the lens, so we would love to hear your definitions as to what is the EI.

14:22 Well, thanks for sharing that's a beautiful story. And I and I think what you're what you're also, what you're speaking to is the fact that we have the power to reframe situations and to look at things. We have the power to decide how to react and and and what is meaningful and what's not meaningful. And so I love that you facilitate that with with that young girl, and I'm sure you changed her life and definitely because sometimes we can succumb to what's happening around us. And and then in respect to Dee, I that's actually my approach, actually my my my second book that I'm working on right now, so I won't give away all everything, but essentially I talk about the three things I kind of reimagine the three letters for d I, which is D is for decency, E is for excellence, and I is for integrity. And those are thank you, and then those are thes that I live by and and also the principles that I use when I implement de I in different organizations. So it's important essentially that when we talk about decency, we're talking about respect having making sure that anybody who comes through you through the doors of any workplace environment has the the feeling of belonging, the feeling of respect and dignity. When we talked about excellence, we're talking about essentially hiring the best in the brightest de I is not about about just giving somebody a job because they look a certain way or because they call themselves a certain things. That's that's not what it is.

15:44 And I can say that having worked in HR for for many years, that that is not how it operates. It should not operate. And then the last one is integrity. And when we talk about integrity, I'm talking about that accountability and that's the that's the responsibility of organizations. So are you in sharing that your environment is conducive for for for everyone to feel comfortable? Is your environment free of bullying? Harassment? Which is which is which is unfortunately a very common emerging trend happening that's been normalized, I believe in different organizations. So there is there's there's certain responsibilities that that organizations have to their to their to their employees. And it's actually the law. I mean the I came out of the civil rights movement, the nineteen sixty four Civil Rights Act, and so so it's not a new thing. There's always been a concern and and and and acceptance and an expectation that people would be treated fairly and properly in the workplace.

16:43 Yeah, I know these are such valid points. So let's you have brought up some very good points. Let's talk about hiring. You said that you know, hire the best and the brightest. So let's say there's an organization and you have been in human resources, so you know about that they want the worst thinking, they want people coming from different backgrounds so that their teams are strong, their culture is strong. What would you recommend in both the charms. So for a lot of times what happens is that especially the gen z and with quid quitting and the resignation that you know that came out of the pandemic.

17:24 What would you tell employers and what would you tell the employees to look for? So I'm having gen zs on on my team. I I and I understand the generational differences. I think it's important to be intentional in looking for diversity. But when I when I say that there's a coveyat, it's not I'm going to disqualify somebody in fear of somebody else, or I'm going to go for the person who fits a certain demographic or first it's a certain thing because because I have to fit this quota, I don't. I don't. I don't believe in that. I think it's a matter of as I said, it's it's a about hiring the best in the brightest. But but that said, the whole notion of DI is to ensure that the best in the briders have an opportunity to get through the door and to be considered. And so some of the best practices that I employ and that I stress where when I work is okay, So how is there First of all, there should be at least two three people at any given time to look at look at one resume, and to consider that one person should not have all the power because you look at a resume and say, oh, you know, that person went to the same school I did. Oh, they must be wonderful, or that person, oh, those are.

18:37 One of the very obvious biases that I've seen with my clients as well. Yeah, absolutely, Or that person's name has too many continents. I'm going to throw it in the garbage. I mean. So those are things where that's where accountability piece comes in, Where there should be teams, and I would even say interdisciplinary teams, so one person from say you know, one finance and one person from HR, one person from from facility whatever. Faulcillit this but making sure you have a diverse team of people looking at the resumes so that way your your your bias is not full print, but you want to you want to make sure that that you're doing it, you can you can't to mitigate the biases and in those processes m so.

19:18 You're bringing different perspectives even to higher and that definitely allows the elimination or at least as far as we can go, the reduction or whatever of bias. And now to kind of go a little bit deep into this, so many organizations, like so many of my clients are telling and like sharing that now they're using automated bots that you know, you get like ten thousand resumes sometimes for a job, or it could be like five hundred or it could be three hundred. So for that process, do you have any thoughts on that? So it's it's it's it's definitely said when you look at the when you look at the information coming in, you have to kind of triage it. And even there when you triage. You can still it still requires somebody to look at all all the whole bulk and decide, Okay, is this is this going to the I'm going to consider a pile. Is this a throw away pile? Is this a high possible hiring pile. So so I think at every stage possible, there should be multiple eyes on in the process to make to make sure that that you're again you're mitigating bias where you can and and and unfortunately it's not doesn't always happen. But that's why I also advise people to be persistent. I think I think if you apply for something online, you hear nothing.

20:40 I mean, do some research. The internet is a wonderful thing. Research the the hiring manager, research the CEO. Say hey, I applied for this particular position. I'm very interested. Just just do something. But sometimes don't. I wouldn't just wait on one one area of of of of and hoping that you're going to get the attention that you deserve or want. And that's that's definitely a good strategy to have because what you're doing is you're taking reins in your hands. And also kind of going back to you were talking about the AI is essential that you know, how do you train AI? Because the way you are training AI, whatever you're feeding into it is also important to keep in track. And as such, going back to like what you said for the employees as they're going about it doing research and all, that is very powerful. Okay, So now we have created a really good structure employees onboarded, and you talked about some bullying and harassment. So how can organizations go about creating that culture of respect and excellence and accountability. Accountability is such an integral part. It's about like owning, So it goes both ways. It's like employees not walking in and expecting a start to show up for work that oh I showed up. Yay.

22:05 It goes beyond that. So let's dive into that. So that the infrastructure has to be put in place, and and that actually starts with the head, the head of the organization and leadership team. And so if if the head of an organization is not on board to create the culture, create a culture of inclusivity, it's not going to happen. And I've seen situations where where there have been attempts where to to kind of create a culture where it should of of uh to create a culture of that that's ideal. But sometimes if a leader is not on board, or it doesn't have the capability to be on board, it's just it's it's not it's futile, it's it's futile efforts. So that's my that's my first, my first point. But ultimately, sometimes it has to happen from the from the ground up, as opposed to the to the head down. And I say that with regard to situations where their big workplace in environments where employees have basically revolted and they said, you know what, I don't like the way I'm being treated here, or I'm complaining about this, they decided to to to you know, follow complaints, you know, go go to the EEOC or something, and that in turn forces the the the the powers that be to start to shift and change their their lens and and their approach to how they how they govern the workplace environments. So but I but I also with that, I believe that d I should be embedded in all areas. And so when I've taken positions as Chief Diversity Officer or as a head of diversity in different places, I've always candidly asked I said, is this

23:37 is this a figurehead position? Or am I actually going to be doing some work here? Am I? Am I allowed to actually do what I was hired to do? And because I'm I'm I'm not a person you can probably tell. I'm not someone who just will sit there and just and and and there are times where I had to say, hey, you know what, Oh, that's why you know I was hired for this. This is why I'm sharing my opinion. And so I think it's important that when you're when you're implementing DEI, that it's not just kind of like an additive. It's not over there, it's not it's not in one area, it's it should be permitted across the entire organization. So then it doesn't feel like an anomaly, and it feels it has to feel normal. So and so in my role, I show up everywhere, and so I also am available to people to respond to situations that that that might arrive, might that may arise anywhere from from coaching to to to to recommendations to HR to to get things evaluated, looking at policies and procedures, how are they functioning? And one thing in particular I do with teams and leaders. Is if you happen to have the same outcome over and over again, where a particular group of people is not are basically left on the margins or they're not getting what they should in comparison to others. That means that the methodology is not right. That means a protocol has to be assessed. And sometimes people don't don't re realize that when there's when they're when there are issues in organizations, it could be people are process and sometimes people will will will real they will they will think that it's

25:10 a people issue, but it's actually a process issue. And so so when I when my approach to this work is to look at, okay, how are we doing things are there, how are the procedures in the protocols and are they yielding the outcomes that we that we want? And then from there you can say, okay, maybe with the people issue, but I like to look at how the structure is at first, Yeah. That makes sense because what you're doing is that are we providing the tools? Are we providing the resources for people to be successful? And we have taken a look at. The processes. Let's say the processes are in place, what are the responsibilities of any employee at any stage, because the way I see it is that you know, when you're doing a handshit, you need both the whether it's the one person or two persons, or whether it's a hug or whether it's smiling at each other, you need a participation of both. So what can employees do so that they can step into leadership because everybody wants to grow, everybody wants to learn. How can they show up as leaders and take some of the responsibility.

26:17 That's a big one. Via I think I wrote down the word buy in first. They should be buy into the philosophy and and and what the what the what people want for the culture. And I always say that everybody has has has a hand in how they create their own culture. So I say, I don't get paid enough money to go into a workplace environment for eight hours and be mistreated or deal with with with you know, rude people, or or or or or having a frog in my throat, afraid to see somebody and turn the other way. I just I don't. I do not believe in entering those kind of environments. So I always tell employees that that you have this is if you have ownership you decide, you dictate the rules of engagement with people, You dictate with the environment that you want to enter into.

27:02 So that's the first thing. At the same time, and we kind of allude to this earlier, is the notion of self reflection. I think people should recognize. I'll go back to the example I shared with with the my colleague with teaching and basically saying that I was with my with my with the students. That was a moment where this person at the same time is complaining that she's not being treated properly. She basically just kind of just just deduced my or reduced my my, my sound, my sound teaching ability. So I think it's an it's it's twofold. It's buying into the organization, buying into the philosophy, doing what you can, as you said, to show kindness, to be respectful, to to to use proper tone, don't publicly public humiliate all those things that are that are essentially bullying, and also practice self reflection and say, okay, where do I go wrong? Where where did I go wrong?

27:52 MM equally important, apologize when you make a mistake, because no one here is infallible. And I've seen leaders I've seen people people who do not want to take responsibility and they don't want to say I'm sorry, but yet they want to get they want to advance to the next level. But essentially, I remember someone saying, you're often promoted to You're often promoted to the job you're already doing. And so if you're not showing that you have the capability to be respectful and accommodating and a team player at a particular level, you're not going to be considered for the next level. M very true. And there are two possibilities. So during my coaching experience also, I've had people kind of come and share that, oh, that person is really really mean to me and bad to me, And there can be two possibilities there either one like for one of my clients, you know, we explored that, Okay, is she like that with everyone? Or is she just like that with you? And my client let's say her name is Jenna. Jenna said, oh, April is like that with everyone.

28:58 So then that was the case for the reframing that it's nothing personal and if you're taking it personally, let's reframe it and let's take a look at it. How can we define the rules of engagement, as you mentioned, or it can be a reality, so it can be a toxic boss. So as you mentioned about that, self reflection is the key sitting down and looking at the situation. And it's hard. Because emotions do have a tendency of taking over. So with your experience. And as you said that, you know, you mentioned that you are interested in learning what is it that makes people take So when people are in the throes of emotion, what would you light as one or two steps that can help them take a step back and look at the situation objectively.

29:52 You just said it, take a step back. I mean sometimes you have to definitely hold your tongue and just shut it down. And sometimes you have to actually you leave, physically leave an environment in order to to not be pulled into the gutter or the pig pen would have It depends on the days, and and and you and you raise a good point because we we tend to want to personalize things when things happen. And that's why I love the book The Four Agreements, because you know, his first agreement is that it's it's don't take things personally. It's it's not about you. And and most of the time, it's not even it has nothing to do with you, with somebody else's stuff they're working through, and you happen to be the person there and so and and that's a difficult thing. Intellectually, it's easy to say that, but in in in the moment, with with our emotions, as you shared, it's difficult to kind of not take things personally.

30:45 But but to answer your question, I believe just I just hold your tongue where you can, or I just I do this. It's it's very difficult. And I'm not sitting here as somebody who's perfect. I'm not saying I'm not someone who was who was who's not taken the bait and had to challenge somebody who who was being disrespectful, because I do believe that you should, you should challenge bullies. But it's but but but most most cases, I will walk away, and I will, I will, I will go back to that person. Or sometimes your silence troubles somebody so deeply that they'll come back to you and apologize. That is powerful when you are silent, It can be so powerful that it can even make another person uncomfortable in that conversation. So that's one thing to kind of keep in your tool kit and tell us more about, like, you know, the book that you're writing that's coming out.

31:42 When it's coming out, when can people anticipate it? How can people connect with you? Where can they reach you? Oh? Thank you. So the plan is for it to come up this summer, and again it's it's looking at essentially the three The working title is working the Three Truths of DEI and I can be reached at My website is Pultonconsulting Group dot com. My individual website is coming soon, Doctor Dionpulton dot com and I'm on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is actually the best place to reach me if you'd like to to connect, and I'm also on Facebook, but LinkedIn is probably the primary source. M Is there anything else you'd like to share with our audience.

32:27 Well, it's been a pleasure. I enjoyed this deep conversation. I love the work that you're doing. I love the fact that we were able to connect on this and we're not the same people, but we have the same mission clearly, and I just thank you for having me today. It's it's been a pleasure. Thank you for joining us, because you brought completely different outlook to what is out there that how we can bring those different perspectives and make us stronger because at the end of the day, we are all going towards the same destination. We want to live our lives, have. Meaningful conversations, have fulfilled lives. Do good bye yourself, do good bye your family, by your neighbors, community and humanity.

33:11 So why not? The question to ask over here is that sometimes we say, oh, how would that be possible? But the question to ask is what if it is possible? And you have provided a lot of strategies and tactics that people can take in run with. So thank you, Thank you. For joining us, Thank you too good to be with you absolutely, and thank you wonderful audience for being part of her show. You are amazing and we want. To share a lot with you because sometimes life can be tough and reach out to us. Let us know. Who can we bring in so that you can live the life that you deserve. And thank you on for making the show technically possible. Be well, take care and see you all next time.

34:00 Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence With your host Dvpark, we hope you have learned more about how to start living the life you want. Each week on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who've experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships. During Beyond Confidence, Divapark shares what happened to her when she stepped out of her comfort zone to work directly with people across the globe. She not only coaches people how to form hard connections, but also transform relationships to mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the life they want. If you are ready to live the life you want and leverage your strengths, learn more at www dot dvpark dot com and you can connect with vat contact at dvpark dot com. We look forward to you joining us next week.