March 25, 2025

Breaking the Mold: Rethinking Hiring, Culture & Workplace Excellence

Show Notes
Transcript

Is DEI about politics, or is it about fairness, self-reflection, and higher standards? In this powerful Beyond Confidence episode, Divya Parekh and Dr. Dionne Wright Poulton challenge DEI misconceptions. It’s not about quotas—it’s about fairness, decency, and demanding more from ourselves and our workplaces. Tune in for a bold, thought-provoking conversation on real impact beyond the buzzwords.

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The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are

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This is Beyond Confidence with your host w Park. Do

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you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you

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want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional,

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and financial goals? Well? Coming up on dvparks Beyond Confidence,

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you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers

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who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and

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are living the life they want. You will learn how

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relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.

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Moving your career business forward does not have to happen

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at the expense of your personal or family life, or

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vice versa. Learn more at www dot divpork dot com

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and you can connect with DVD contact eds dvpark dot com.

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This is beyond confidence And now here's your host, div Park.

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Good morning listeners and so thrilled to be here with you.

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It's Tuesday. So if you have got a books, thank

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you for doing so. If not, you know, we invite

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you to get a box, either one of them Expert

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to Influencer or the Entrepreneur's Garden. And today I want

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to talk about the kindness of one of our readers.

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So what I want to share is they want to

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remain anonymous and I'm going.

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To respect that.

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So one of the readers heard one of our podcasts

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episodes and they found out that we share some of

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the profits with Kiva dot org. So what they did

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was not only they shed the book with their community,

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but they also don't did or keywa dot org and

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send me the picture of the entrepreneur that they had

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helped out with. So isn't that powerful getting the message across?

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And that's what the idea is with the books. So

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keep the kind of circle going helping people without strengths attached.

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And let's bring in our guest. Welcome back to Dion.

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Good Morning, DIVI. I get to be with you. Thanks

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for having me, Good to have you.

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So we start out with a moment from your childhood

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or youth where you can recall either it was a

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person or a moment that left a positive mark on you.

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I would have to mention my parents. So I had

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two great parents, which I realized now that I'm older

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and a parent myself, that it's actually difficult to do.

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But they were pretty involved, they were engaged, they were smart,

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and I love their philosophy and that they allowed me

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to be who I was and to take chances and risks,

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but did not did not make me feel like I

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was attaching my accomplishments to my self worth I was.

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I always felt loved, and that was another thing.

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Mm hmmm.

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Isn't that powerful because so many kids mm hmm. That's

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so near and dear to my heart, because so many

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people are craving that that, Oh they're seeking parents approval,

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and in that that shapes their whole of their life.

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So good for your.

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Parents, Thank you. And there they're both deceased now, but

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their legacy lives on for sure in myself and my

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siblings and and what I'm doing with my children and

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and my extended children, their friends' friends when I when

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I can, of.

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Course, And that's the beauty of positivity because just like

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negativity spreads, you know, positivity spreads too, just by being

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who you are, and you are that example for people.

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So as you grew up, did you have any particular

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interest that you persuaded?

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So I kind of fell into track and field. I

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realized in sixth or seventh grade that I ran fast,

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Actually somebody discovered that I ran fast, and from there

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it was just I was put into track and field

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and I essentially competed, and from sixth grade all the

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way up through graduation, I was on the junior national team.

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The senior national team ended up getting a full scholarship

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to Rice University in Houston, and I can say that

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that was the essentially the turning point in my life

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in that my parents at the time they were immigrants

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and didn't retually have all the money in the world,

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so that afforded me to get an education for free.

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And I think I attest my ability to run fast

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to why I'm sitting here with you today.

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That is so powerful.

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Now tracking can be sort of an individual sport, or

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maybe not so. Tell us a little bit more about that,

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because there's so many parents who are thinking, oh, no,

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I need to put my kids in a team sport

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or something like tennis or golf.

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What would you tell them?

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So Track and Feel is pretty unique because I ran

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the one hundred meters, but I also win the four

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I also ran the Pope by One relay, which is

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actually a team effort, so I have the best of

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both worlds in that. In that regard, I will say

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to parents that I think it's extremely important that your

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child does something. And as I said, my gift was

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running fast. Sometimes people play violin, they you know, anything.

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As long as that the child is able to discover

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what their strengths are, I think that's a good thing.

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And and I and I would be REMISSI if I

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didn't share that My parents actually helped me support that.

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So every weekend they were take me to track meets,

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they were traveling, they were doing everything they could to

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support that effort. So I think it's important that parents

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definitely will will help the help their children find that gift,

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because I believe we all have that. And and then

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and also help how do you water it? How do

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you water the seeds? Once you discover them.

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MM.

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That definitely makes sense. That allowed the child to flourish

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in the area that they're good at, because what they're

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doing is they're developing their strands, and as they developed

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their streands, they're developing the confidence. So for you perfectively,

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like you ran track, what would you say were a

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couple of lessons that you took along with you to college? Oh?

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Wow, you know, I was. I was very disciplined, and

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so essentially my job I called it the job. It

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wasn't a job. I didn't get paid for it, but

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I would get up in the morning, go to school

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all day, and then after school I'd be lugging my bags,

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go straight down to the track and train for at

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least two three hours, and come home. I still haven't showered,

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I still haven't eaten, so haven't done my homework. And

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I sultly did that routine for my entire high school life,

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and that carried over into my university days. So actually,

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by the time I got to university it actually felt

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pretty easy. In that time, I had that discipline already established,

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and I was I was. I had a routine down.

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Essentially, That's one of the reasons I love sports. It

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doesn't matter what format it is. It brings that discipline

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that nothing else can bring. And also depending on what

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sports you're in, not only you are learning that sportsmanship

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which is so powerful, which carries you throughout the life.

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And along with that discipline and camaraderie and team building,

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it brings just so much. So now fast forward, like,

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you know what was the major in college and what

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was the rest of the journey.

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So my undergrad is clinesiology and health sciences, and then

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I did a master's degree. Actually sorry, before that, I

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did a teaching degree at University of Toronto, and I

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also did a master's degree looking at adult education. It's

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a long title. I'm not going to go into it.

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And then I did my PhD in organizational learning and development.

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So I see a detour that you were in the

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States and then you went to University of Toronto. So

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what was that journey like and what brought the decision?

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So I actually grew up in Toronto, Canada. I was

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going to race there and so I went down to

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Houston when I got the track scholarship at RICE, and

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then I went back to Toronto met my husband and

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he was actually on his way to California, and I said, well,

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I lived in States, so we ended up moving to

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California and then we've been in the States now for

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probably like almost thirty years. So essentially this is my home.

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Got it?

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Got it?

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And so now what brought you to organizational learning? Because

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I can kind of see the progression that you know

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you were in education, and then of course that education

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and adult learning, it kind of moves towards that understanding

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how people learn and how did that. But what was

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it that specific that drew you to organizational learning?

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So to your point, so I started my career as

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a classroom teacher. I taught high school. And if you've

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ever worked in a high school or had experienced with

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high school, even if as a parent, looking at the

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behaviors of some of the adults in the schools, they

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also gave a little bit of education. So it was

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an interesting juxtaposition to be dealing with the children in

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the schools and also looking at the behaviors of the

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adults in the schools, which sometimes they were actually one

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and the same. Unfortunately, I can tell you a few

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stories with with what my kids went through, but nonetheless

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they're now adults. But essentially I always had that interest

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in adults in adult education. What makes people tick? Why

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do people behave the way behave? And there's one specific

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incident that kind of prompted me to look at adults,

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and that was in my first year teaching, I inherited

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a class of grade nine boys who were unruly. They

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had gone through three or four other teachers at the time.

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They were all diverse, many different backgrounds, right ethnicities, and

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long story short, I came into the to the classroom

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and I said to the kids, about thirty five grade

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nine boys, I said, you're having a difficult time, but

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I'm I'm here now. You're gonna have to come to

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come to school on time, pull your pants, do a

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good job, and do your school work, and we'll be fine.

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And they all did well. And at the end of

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the school year, one of the teachers who had difficulty

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with the class before I inherited came to me and

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said that I was only good with the kids because

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I was black and because I was pretty. Hmm. I said, interesting,

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how do you explain the fact that all the white

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kids did well the hispanic kids did well. I must

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be really pretty. But nonetheless, it was it was a

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pivotal moment and it wasn't confrontational, but that's what kind

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of led me to this idea of bias because the

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same teacher who essentially reduced my son of teaching ability

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to my race and gender always complained that people were

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prejudging her about about a limp that she had, And

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so I'm thinking, so you have the experience of being

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othered and being treated differently, but yeah, you just did

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that to me. So that kind of led me to

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realize what's happening with this with bias and in this

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exchange in the workplace. And so that's what kind of

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led me to look into this research and eventually be

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where I am right now.

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Definitely, and that makes sense. So what was the topic

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for your PhD? Because PhD is usually concentrated.

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So I actually did. I created a workshop called think

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You're an Unbiased Teacher, Think Again, just as a result

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of my teaching experiences, and I created that in two

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thousand and two. You did it for a conference and

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it was accepted. At the end of it, I had

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like thirty five people say, Oh, I want you to

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come to my workplace. I want you to come to

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my school, my university to facilitate, and I realized that

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I had a budding business at the time, so the

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University of Georgia allowed me to use that workshop as

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my research methodology, and so I used that when I

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went there, and that's how I kind of just got

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the empirical evidence to so that the workshop that I

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created actually helps to facilitate in the cultural dialogue in

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a non threatening manner and to help to help kind of,

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you know, merge the cultures in a meaningful way. So

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that's that's how I got into this area.

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M that definitely makes sense.

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And there are so many different things that pull us

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together then that make us different. You know, I haven't

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seen any person so far who doesn't want to be happy.

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I haven't seen anybody who likes, well if they don't

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like to go on vacation, you know, have some hobbies,

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or any person who does not want to do good

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by their children or by the loved ones. So given that,

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you know, we have so many things that unite us

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and pull us together rather than making us different. And

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of course, you know, like when we talk about the differences,

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we all are different.

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Like I don't know about you, but when.

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You're going out with your friends and they have difference

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of opinion. We all are different and think about like

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how and I'm want to share this story. Like you know,

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I used to do a lot of leadership cams with

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younger generation kids and all that. So one time somebody

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had an experience where initially didn't think they were different,

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but then they felt they were different and they said,

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like why, So I took them where we were doing

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the camp.

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There were a lot of.

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Flowers, and I said, Okay, here's what I want you

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to take a look at. Here are different flowers. Tell

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me which one is prettier, which one is less, which

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one is more. And they said, this young girl probably

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twelve or thirteen years old, seventh or eighth grade, oh,

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all of them are beautiful. And I said, that's the

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sentiment you need to carry in your heart. And I've

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seen her grow up and she stays in touch, and

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I can tell you that, yes, other people can think

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what they want to think. It's how you see the

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world through the lens that makes a difference. And I

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know that you had mentioned about how you see the lens,

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so we would love to hear your definitions as to

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what is the EI.

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Well, thanks for sharing that's a beautiful story. And I

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and I think what you're what you're also, what you're

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speaking to is the fact that we have the power

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to reframe situations and to look at things. We have

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the power to decide how to react and and and

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what is meaningful and what's not meaningful. And so I

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love that you facilitate that with with that young girl,

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and I'm sure you changed her life and definitely because

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sometimes we can succumb to what's happening around us. And

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and then in respect to Dee, I that's actually my approach,

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actually my my my second book that I'm working on

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right now, so I won't give away all everything, but

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essentially I talk about the three things I kind of

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reimagine the three letters for d I, which is D

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is for decency, E is for excellence, and I is

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for integrity. And those are thank you, and then those

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are thes that I live by and and also the

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principles that I use when I implement de I in

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different organizations. So it's important essentially that when we talk

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about decency, we're talking about respect having making sure that

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anybody who comes through you through the doors of any

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workplace environment has the the feeling of belonging, the feeling

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of respect and dignity. When we talked about excellence, we're

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talking about essentially hiring the best in the brightest de

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I is not about about just giving somebody a job

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because they look a certain way or because they call

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themselves a certain things. That's that's not what it is.

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And I can say that having worked in HR for

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for many years, that that is not how it operates.

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It should not operate. And then the last one is integrity.

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And when we talk about integrity, I'm talking about that

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accountability and that's the that's the responsibility of organizations. So

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are you in sharing that your environment is conducive for

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for for everyone to feel comfortable? Is your environment free

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of bullying? Harassment? Which is which is which is unfortunately

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a very common emerging trend happening that's been normalized, I

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believe in different organizations. So there is there's there's certain

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responsibilities that that organizations have to their to their to

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their employees. And it's actually the law. I mean the

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I came out of the civil rights movement, the nineteen

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sixty four Civil Rights Act, and so so it's not

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a new thing. There's always been a concern and and

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and and acceptance and an expectation that people would be

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treated fairly and properly in the workplace.

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Yeah, I know these are such valid points. So let's

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you have brought up some very good points. Let's talk

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about hiring. You said that you know, hire the best

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and the brightest. So let's say there's an organization and

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you have been in human resources, so you know about

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that they want the worst thinking, they want people coming

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from different backgrounds so that their teams are strong, their

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culture is strong. What would you recommend in both the charms.

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So for a lot of times what happens is that

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especially the gen z and with quid quitting and the

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resignation that you know that came out of the pandemic.

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What would you tell employers and what would you tell

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the employees to look for?

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So I'm having gen zs on on my team. I

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I and I understand the generational differences. I think it's

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important to be intentional in looking for diversity. But when

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I when I say that there's a coveyat, it's not

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I'm going to disqualify somebody in fear of somebody else,

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or I'm going to go for the person who fits

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a certain demographic or first it's a certain thing because

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because I have to fit this quota, I don't. I don't.

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I don't believe in that. I think it's a matter

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of as I said, it's it's a about hiring the

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best in the brightest. But but that said, the whole

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notion of DI is to ensure that the best in

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the briders have an opportunity to get through the door

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and to be considered. And so some of the best

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practices that I employ and that I stress where when

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I work is okay, So how is there First of all,

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there should be at least two three people at any

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given time to look at look at one resume, and

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to consider that one person should not have all the

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power because you look at a resume and say, oh,

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you know, that person went to the same school I did. Oh,

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they must be wonderful, or that person, oh, those are.

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One of the very obvious biases that I've seen with

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my clients as well.

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Yeah, absolutely, Or that person's name has too many continents.

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I'm going to throw it in the garbage. I mean.

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So those are things where that's where accountability piece comes in,

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Where there should be teams, and I would even say

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interdisciplinary teams, so one person from say you know, one

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finance and one person from HR, one person from from

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facility whatever. Faulcillit this but making sure you have a

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diverse team of people looking at the resumes so that

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way your your your bias is not full print, but

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you want to you want to make sure that that

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you're doing it, you can you can't to mitigate the

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biases and in those processes m so.

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You're bringing different perspectives even to higher and that definitely

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allows the elimination or at least as far as we

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can go, the reduction or whatever of bias. And now

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to kind of go a little bit deep into this,

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so many organizations, like so many of my clients are

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telling and like sharing that now they're using automated bots

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that you know, you get like ten thousand resumes sometimes

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for a job, or it could be like five hundred

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or it could be three hundred. So for that process,

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do you have any thoughts on that?

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So it's it's it's it's definitely said when you look

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at the when you look at the information coming in,

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you have to kind of triage it. And even there

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when you triage. You can still it still requires somebody

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to look at all all the whole bulk and decide, Okay,

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is this is this going to the I'm going to

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consider a pile. Is this a throw away pile? Is

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this a high possible hiring pile. So so I think

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at every stage possible, there should be multiple eyes on

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in the process to make to make sure that that

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you're again you're mitigating bias where you can and and

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and unfortunately it's not doesn't always happen. But that's why

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I also advise people to be persistent. I think I

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think if you apply for something online, you hear nothing.

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I mean, do some research. The internet is a wonderful thing.

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Research the the hiring manager, research the CEO. Say hey,

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I applied for this particular position. I'm very interested. Just

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just do something. But sometimes don't. I wouldn't just wait

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on one one area of of of of and hoping

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that you're going to get the attention that you deserve

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or want.

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And that's that's definitely a good strategy to have because

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what you're doing is you're taking reins in your hands.

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And also kind of going back to you were talking

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about the AI is essential that you know, how do

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you train AI? Because the way you are training AI,

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Breaking the Mold: Rethinking Hiring, Culture & Workplace Excellence

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