Dealing with a Toxic Boss? Here’s What You Need to Know! 🚨

0:00 The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests and not those of W four WN Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsement for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W four WN Radio. Its employees are affiliates. Any questions or common should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W four WN Radio. This is Beyond Confidence with your host d W. Park. Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional, and financial goals? Well? Coming up on voparks Beyond Confidence, you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and are living the life they want. You will learn how relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.

0:52 Moving your career business forward does not have to happen at the expense of your personal or family life, or vice versa. Learn more at www dot divpork dot com and you can connect with dvant contact dant divpark dot com. This is beyond confidence and now here's your host, V Park. Good morning listeners. It's Tuesday morning and it's so fantastic to be here with you as always, and today we have a really interesting topic which you know a lot of people kind of leave their jobs because of it. And before we get to our guest, I just want to share with you a beautiful kind of story. So one of my neighbors, and this is of course he didn't share with me. I just kind of observed him.

1:42 He was walking his dog and then he saw one of the other neighbors struggling with I think. So he was trying to remove a rock from his garden and just kind of taking that shovel and edding it in. And this gentleman, Hells is the talks like all right, stay put and walking behind them, went up to the neighbor helped him move that drug out of the way. So what I want to share with you is that when we come together a little act of kindness can help someone because together we are stronger. So go ahead, take that time and be sure to set a few moments here and there throughout the month and do a kindness act because it's more for you than for anybody else.

2:37 And thank you everyone for getting a book. Who if you have got our books, we really really appreciate it. And if you have not, please do get our books because just yesterday I got an email from one of the readers and they shed that the book had changed their life. So and also part the proceeds go to key what our orgs together to be a changing lights. And let's welcome our guest. Hi, Davieah, how are you good? How are you welcome? Rob? Thank you so much for having me. And it's obviously you're doing incredible work and helping your neighbors out is always such a strong and fulfilling experience.

3:23 I'm just reporting on that I didn't help move the rock, but but the goal is that we help move the needle for other people and it's so important. So Rob, share with us. You know, I love the background, like you know you're in coastery Gun and that's so fantastic. Share it with us. As to if you remember a moment or a person that left a positive mark on you in your young life. Yeah, so that's a great question I actually had. I used to play water polo, and I have a water polo coach from when I was twelve to eighteen, and he was amazing. Actually one of the most the biggest lessons he actually taught me. One was, of course, working hard and doing the work, but the other thing was I remember when I was about twelve years old and we were out of practice and I just didn't have energy.

4:27 And I remember being frustrated at myself. And I know a lot of the listeners, especially if you demand a lot from yourself, like many of my clients do, it's very frustrating and you're like, why can't I deliver? Yeah, and he was he was telling me. He's like, you have times where you have energy and times where you don't, and it's a natural cycles to go through, and so you have to take into account that as you're progressing. And I think it's a lesson that in business, especially, a lot of executives think that they should be going one hundred percent all the time, and it's just not it's not reality, nor is it biologically true.

5:11 Yeah, the brain works at its own pace, and the more you push it, the more it's going to this away you. So definitely, so tell us a bit about your journey from playing water polo and learning that beautiful lesson to where you are right now. Yeah, so it's been a fun ride. So so I played water polo, I went to my tea and got a mechanical engineering degree, and I started working in mining, so in coal mining out in British Columbia, and that's when I encountered my first toxic boss. And it started really chipping away at the confidence. At MIT, they're telling you, hey, you're a world leader, like you're going to be a leader, You're you're, you know, going to change the world, You're going to do these things. And you come out and you're like, let's go. And it wasn't. I wasn't performing at work like I spent the first year there, I saved them tens of millions. I was like, okay, here we go. And it started off as these passive, aggressive comments to you know, just like basically complete denial of me, and that started leading into depression.

6:35 I'm sorry you had to go through. That, thank you. And actually it's something that like we'll talk more about it, but but toxic managers increase the risk of depression by three percent in their workplace. Yeah, and there's a study out of Stanford that talks about how the ways company managed their people is worth one hundred twenty thousand deaths per year in the United States alone, which makes it the fifth leading cause of death. Ah. So yeah, it's it's out of control. And like I'm sure you've you've heard the statistics like seventy percent of people would quit their job based on a batter, fifty percent actually have and then using the research that I use, sixty five point one percent of people have a destructive leader is what the research calls it to dict.

7:34 Yeah, I mean these are sad statistics and it's it is really sad. So as you mentioned, you know your personal like you got impacted personally, how did you come out of it? Yeah, it took a lot, right, and so it kept chipping away and I really got into my own mind and ultimately led to a suicide attempt in twenty thirteen. Oh I'm so sorry. I'm actually grateful that for that experience today because it's put me on the path that I am now right and the thing deva I don't want to hold us in that space. But the part that's really I think the saddest part is the next morning, I went got dressed and I went to work, and I knew consciously that my boss and my life was killing me. But I didn't have the power to choose to do anything else because my mind was so trapped. And it took me a while to sort of overcome that and then to choose, Hey, I need to make a change. Yeah, And it was in late twenty nineteen where I started working very intensely and deeply on myself, obviously with help of coaches and therapists and all these things, right, And

9:06 that was the unlock, and exactly what you talk about at the beginning of your show happened. In five years. I went from the preston suicidal as an engineer to an executive coach, an author, a tedex speaker. Right now, my TEDx talk has like roughly two hundred and thirty forty thousand views. My book's going to be coming out later this year. And I live in the beautiful sunny Costa Rica instead of Northern Canada. And the biggest change is what's going on in my psychology. Now. Congratulations, and I appreciate you sharing that. You know, we don't want to be in that space and at the same token, it's important to acknowledge it because in our society, the expectation is got to be strong. You've got to be that strong of a leader. The key is that, yes, you've got to be strong, but it's also important to recognize that you've got to be strong to recognize where you are at. Yes, you've got to be strong. You've got to be courageous to recognize where you are at. Be compassionate towards yourself, and give yourself permission that it's okay to feel that way, but not stay there, find help like you did, and move beyond it.

10:29 So let's kind of come to the elephant in the room. You mentioned about sixty five plus some change. I mean, that's a huge number. So can you share as to how many different types of toxic leaders are there? Yes, so there's six types of toxic leaders. And so when we think about toxic leaders often we think about, you know, someone who's aggressive, they're yelling at their people, you know that kind of thing, right, Like that's the classic a whole boss. And when I when I talk about it, I like just think about like Gordon Ramsey on Hell's Kitchen and someone gives them like undercooked chicken.

11:21 Right. That that's the classic, but it's actually not that common. So only five point five percent of folks have a boss like that. What's more common is a boss that's called an abusive narcissist. And so these are people who, again they make threats, they cut you down, they abuse you, and it's all about them. And a like a classic movie portrayal of this is Leonardo DiCaprio's role in Wolf of Wall Street. So like, you're right, so it's all about me. I'm putting you down, but I'm taking all the credit and like that's how I get ahead. And actually almost twenty percent of folks have a boss like that.

12:08 Wow. Yeah, And how can they recognize because so many times what happens is that it's a different matter if you have a coach. So for example, when people come to me, then I will help them differentiate where they're at fault, where they're not what their boss is saying and taking. And sometimes the feedback is true. So we cannot just kind of say that, you know, every boss is bad because the destructive boss is out there. So tell us a little bit about how can people recognize? Yes, So if you get feedback. Right, if the person's yelling at you and swearing at you and calling you all these names, it's probably inappropriate.

13:00 And that's very obvious. Like regardless if you didn't do a great job, it's still inappropriate. Right. Of course, the other side of it, right, is exactly what you're mentioning, right, is feedback is appropriate for the office, right And as a manager, as a leader, you have to give your folks feedback. When I talk about people giving feedback, it has to be structured, it has to be about the process, not the person, and it has to be sort of future centric. So hey, next time, I would like you to do this, or what was the decision that you made that led you to doing it this way? Next time, let's tweak that and do it this way. Right. So it's a little bit different in a sense. But if someone's just giving you feedback like rob your bad guy, or like that work sucked, like, that's not very helpful.

13:59 Absolutely, those are great points. And you did mention that six different types of leaders, So if you're good with it, you know, kind of share with this in brief what do they look like and how can professional so like leaders? I mean, it doesn't matter. You know, I've worked with C suite exec teams and then they say, like their CEO is a narcissist or toxic, and it doesn't matter nowadays in the genders, it's no longer that women are nurturing all the time. It's just leaders. It's a gender irrelevant. So give us a little insight in that, like, because so many times what happens is that leaders or professionals thing that something is wrong with them because we, like you said, we tend to be hot on ourselves.

14:50 That's the biggest part actually, right. So, and the studies show actually that narcisism helps you climb the ladder in the organization. Still, and I mean, if we look at politics, we can see this across the board. Right. However, when we're talking about ourselves. First off, folks who are narcissists or arrogant and violent bosses are never watching this show, right, So if you're watching this show, you're not one of them. Right. And so now it's about looking at how are we as a leader and what's going on upstairs in our psychology.

15:38 And that's where the book and I talk about this a lot, but we start we need to start listening to those parts of us that are talking in our minds. And it's like in a movie where the devil or the angels on your shoulder, or folks have watched inside out. It's like those little characters that are standing at the troll panel in that little girl's mind. It's like that, right, And as we start listening to these parts of us that are saying, hey, Rob, you gotta work harder, or hey, you got to do more, or hey you got to you know people, please, like whatever those parts are saying to you, you got to listen, and then you need to choose, as the leader of yourself, what's the best path for you.

16:28 Yeah, know, that definitely makes sense because the sabbators, there are so many different sabators, like you know, the judgment where you are judging your shelf, you're judging others, you're judging the circumstances, becoming aware. It's almost like you know, having your hand on the stuff top, it's important to know, like you know, it's it's what it's telling you. Is it providing you a signal that hey, all right, you know your hand is on stuff top, But if you linger around there, then that's what causes all the issues. So now let's say you somebody's like that savatory is telling you something, what you're doing, what you're not. So somebody is in that relationship with the toxic boss before they get to the place where, like you know, they could sell phone themselves, how could they recognize that toxicity and what could they do about it?

17:29 Yes, this is where exactly what you're talking about via is important is being in tune with how you feel. So before you can start often before you can start listening, you have to feel first. And so if you notice that you're emotionally disconnected, which I was, right, because we're trained, a lot of us are trained in childhood that like suck it up, push it down, work harder better, right, And so now we're adults and we're not trained to feel. But it's if we just start and there's many apps to do this for free. Right, It's just like if we just train ourselves to maybe rate how we're feeling every day once a day, right, and we start getting in tune and we start noticing, Hey, when I go to work, I feel terrible When my boss says these things to me, I feel terrible. When I see him or her, I feel terrible. That's when we can start going okay, this is the common pattern, and then it's about choosing for yourself, right, and I can't like people often ask me, hey, Rob, what should I do if I have a bad boss? Well? Right, Often there's a lot of the nuances, which is, what's your financial situation, what's your family situation? Like, what are these things going on in your own life that either allow you to quit,

19:05 allow you to internally transfer at your company, allow you to stay at your job, like whatever that is. I mean, even there are many a couple boss types at least that you can manage them. Of course, an abusive narcissist is not on that list of right, But there are a couple boss types, the messy bosses and the ghost managers, where you can manage them because they're not out to get you. They're just not super great leaders. And that definitely makes sense because so many times what happens is that individual contributors are doing great work and then they're promoted, and the companies are so fast paced, especially with changing technology, I mean every especially with AI, every day things are changing and it's as it is hard to keep up with. And then add to it, the financial rollercoasters, and with companies posting, especially if they're public, you know they're quarterly results. So their goal is like go, go go, how can we make profit? And I'm not saying this is for all companies. Some companies may be training their people to be good leaders, but what I've seen is that even after training, that full realization and in depth doesn't happen because you're just kind of consistently moving.

20:34 I mean, of course there are a lot of companies who do that. So if you have those type of bosses who want not out to get you, and that's thank you for sharing that key difference, what may be some of the ways that employees and professionals can manage it? Absolutely? So I mentioned the messy boss, right, and so these folks I like in it to mister bean right, there's some lack of awareness and they kind of go through life and there's sort of chaos happening around them. They sort of create that chaos. And often you can see this at work with when a team's running, they're not really sure where they're going. Everyone's doing a lot of work, but there's no clear picture if you ask them like, hey, where's your team going? What are the team goals? What are your deliverables for this year? They don't know, and they struggle with prioritization. They're just like getting emails, answering things, doing work like that. Right. This is when there's a moment where you can coach your boss.

21:45 They say, hey, Davia, I'd like you to do this task or this project. You can ask for information. When would you like it do? What's the priority? What resources do I get? These type of things like basically a project management plan. Right, that's when you can start managing your priorities or getting your manager who's not doing this, which is part of their role, that you can help them answer the questions that you need answered. The other type yes. Go ahead, no, no, please continue, Yeah. The other type is called a cowardly boss or a ghost manager. And for folks you can who have watched Seinfeld, you can think about like when George sleeps under his desk, right, And these are folks who don't want accountability, They don't want responsibility, you can see. I actually think this is very common right now because if they make a decision and it's wrong, it's you're laid off or they feel internally, I see this a lot. Sometimes with leaders that get promoted and they're new in a promotion, they're like, I'm not sure I does serve to be promoted. That's that saboteur, right, I'm the impostor. I'm not good enough. Look at all these other folks, right. That's when they don't accept responsibility or accountability. And that's if you have a manager that

23:19 you ask them a question and they go, well, Rob, you know, that's that's upper management's decision. Or I read out of this one. My boss, one of my bosses, used to say this, but I read the Steve Jobs documentary or the book, and he says, hire the best people and let them do the work. That's when you have to take control. And so you need to figure out what is the path for you, And then you're asking for approval versus a plan. So it's saying, hey, Divia, what if I give you this work by Friday? Does that work for you? Right? Or can I use this resource in this other department? Does that work right? And so basically you've figured out the plan and you're just asking them to go, yeah, that sounds good, yep, no.

24:13 And that's very powerful because and thank you for like you know, differentiating between different types of bosses, because that's where that differentiature kind of pops up. That they're not intentionally toxic. They are just chaotic and as a result of the chaos, there is confusion and frustration. So that frustration is a whole lot different than somebody who's passive aggressive, like you had. Absolutely yes, yes, And so those folks would benefit a lot from management training and also some like for some of them, some work on their mindset, right, And you mentioned about companies training their leaders, and Business Review has a study out and they say that companies spend three hundred and fifty six billion dollars per year own leadership training and only twenty five percent of it works because it addresses the leader's mindsets. And you know this because you work on this with your clients. Right, is if we have saboteurs, it doesn't matter that you were told in a training that you need to give feedback in this way, or you need to make decisions in this way, or you've got to use the Eisenhower matrix, right, because your brain is going to override that. And that's why the deeper mindset work is so important, is so then you can actually action those things that you've learned.

25:46 Yeah, and that's a very relevant point. Job. So we've kind of like talked about that. Okay, if your boss is X, Y and Z, then what you can do Now, let's say it's possible. So many times what happens is that a lot of people are thinking, oh, this person is like that, and when we talk about that, judge Savatur judging everyone, and how can they take that moment and see and check that are they not only experiencing in their mind but also exhibiting those questionable boss behaviors.

26:35 Absolutely. This is where a three sixty review is always helpful, because you can't look at yourself, right. The other side of this is getting very trusted people both at the office but as mentors, as coaches, as executive sponsors, these type of things. Because as a leader, right, there's a lot of things that you need to do, whether that's public speaking, whether that's you know, inspiring your people, whether it's giving feedback. All these things that you need to do are very outward facing, right. I mean, of course there's a lot of inner work and planning and all these things. A lot of it's out outward facing, and it's impossible for you to know how it lands with other folks unless you get their feedback. And so the big the big piece. Right, there's a few things. One is you must be building trust at all times. Right.

27:39 This is you need to act in accordance to what you talk about. So if you say, hey, I'm going to send you this email by you know, tomorrow afternoon, it better hit that email, right. Like if you're gonna, like say, you're going to go to a meeting, you have to go to that meeting. Right. These are things that are the small, like trust is built. I love this Dutch proverb. It's a trust is built by foot and it leaves on horseback. Hmmm, yeah, very powerful. And I like what you said because I'm personally a fan of three sixty reviews because you are getting perspectives of different people and usually, like when I'm working with someone any like sometimes you know, there are internal clients where what happens is that they're put on the tay you got to take the coaching, and they may be resistant and they have done their three sixty review just within the group. And it's important to expand it out to different cross functional groups as well, and cross functional teams because as you said that, it's about building the trust and getting the general pulse of where a person stands. So that trust is such an important piece because it's not just showing up for others and showing up for yourself when it's needed or when

29:10 the fire is bawning. What I'm hearing is that take the well way before. I mean, they're no more wells, but putting that currency of trust and depositing it in the bank consistently. So what are some of the other ways that people can so Like, Okay, so now they've had the three six year review and they find that a lot of problems that they're having is with them, not with others. How can they first of all be compassionate about it and from there, rather than beating themselves up, come to terms with it and work on it and move beyond it.

29:55 Absolutely, we all have bad moments where we can have bad behavior. This is just fact. Like I've I've had moments where I've yelled at somebody. It's not good. I'm not proud of it. But the first thing, right is acknowledging that it's a behavior that we can change. M And so like, if you're listening to this show. You want to get better. I know that otherwise you wouldn't listen to this show. So I didn't want to work on themselves, it wouldn't be here. Yeah, And so that's I mean, that's the first step, which is a great sign. Right. And so now it's given that it's a behavior and not who you are you can change. And so this is where the mindset work starts, right, And this is where we all have exactly what you mentioned, these saboteurs or these parts of us that were created, most likely in childhood for specific purposes to keep us safe and alive in the world.

31:04 And most folks are running these these saboteurs or these parts of us are running their show, and it's starting to work with them, right, And in general, I would recommend hiring a coach. I can help you with this. If you can help you with this, you can go to therapy as well. They can help you with this. But it's starting to get into your own mindset and unlock these stories, right, Because what makes us exhibit bad boss behavior, whether that's we're unwilling to take accountability or responsibility for decision, or we're yelling at somebody in a meeting because we're under a lot of stress and we need something to be perfect and maybe you know, it didn't go to the customer and the way we wanted like, and we put so much pressure on ourselves that it just like, oh, HiT's Yeah, they're both, you know, opposite ends of the spectrum. But ultimately, it's what's going on in our in our psychology is what triggers those events.

32:13 And if we can work with our our own parts, that's when we can experience freedom and fulfillment and joy and have these incredible experiences where we set our own selves free from the bad bosses in our own mind. HM. That's very powerful because and insightful because what you're saying is that there could be those traps that were set when you were a child, because as a child, you're looking for approval from your parents, from your teachers, and as a matter of fact, I don't remember the name of the study or somewhere I read that a lot of these thinking patterns are established by the time you are five to seven years old. It could be our friends or aunties, uncles or anyone, because it's such a tender age that they're learning from adults. Not only they could be picking up habits or patents from their role models because for them, their parents are whoever surrounding them is what they're imitating and learning from it. So you're absolutely right and setting yourself free. Sur Rob share with us that that journey from knowing yeah, I got to work on myself and to the journey of freedom.

33:49 Are there any few steps that you could share? M The first thing is exactly right. Most of these parts were created when we were children and we were looking through the world through children's eyes and perspectives. So it's not even that our parents did anything wrong or someone said something that they shouldn't or anything like that, right, Like, I like, let's take an example here, You're five years old and your older brother or sister comes home from school and they got an A on their math test and they say to your mom, I got an A in my math test, and your mom goes, wow, I'm so proud of you. I love you, and you're just sitting there, like you're sitting on the ground playing with your toys, and you're watching this and then whoop. In your mind, there's a belief created if I do well at school, my mom will love me. Yeah, and now we're forty five and we're managing a company of five hundred people, and we still have this saboteur that's like, hey, Rob, you don't do well, your mom won't love you. And then one of our people sends the wrong proposal to the client and boom, Yeah, that's literally what's happening. And so the first step is, as you start to get

35:19 in tune with these parts of us that are telling us these stories, is picture them as children and give them the love and the compassion you would like if you have your own child who's five years old, and maybe they're saying something that doesn't make sense right, and maybe it was true when you were five, but it's not true now because you're an adult. Things are different. You can choose things. You know, you have perspective, you have knowledge, you have experienced, you have all these things. And so that's really the first step is giving those parts of ourselves whether they say you know that you're not good enough, you need to work harder, you need to you know, make people feel good like whatever those things are, just lean into that with curiosity, love and compassion, and then build the trust with them. And it takes time and it takes like like with my clients I typically work, I give them like a somewhat of a meditation track because I use internal family systems and it's six minutes a day, and so they just they do a little internal breathing and they just check in with these parts and they're just like, hey, how's it going, how are you doing? We're doing good. Don't worry about it.

36:43 I got it. And then that is what makes significant changes in pretty short amount of time. Absolutely so, thank you Rob for going into details and sharing your wisdom nuggets. I'm sure a lot of our listeners may be thinking, hmm, I need to connect with Rob, so share with us. How can they connect with you? Tell us about your book and anything else you'd like to share. Absolutely so. I mean you can see at the bottom of the screen Robcalverisky dot com if you're listening to this on radio Rob and then Calverowski is ka l war or w sky dot com, so you can find all my stuff there. If you go on that website, you'll be able to subscribe and you get the first two chapters of my book for free. So it's just on the book. Of course, I do public speaking, I do executive coaching. I do group leadership development programs, so you can find all that stuff there. You can connect with me also on LinkedIn, Robcalveriski dot com or Rob Kalviowski on there as well, but those are the basic places.

37:56 And yeah, if you hear this show and you're interested in how you start getting in tune and maybe you want that six minute track, just send me an email Rob at Robcalversky dot com and I will give you the track so you can start working on it for free. Oh fantastic, And I'm sure people can get a lot of nuggets, especially since you're offering the poster chapters. They can get a feel for it and they can look forward to your book and then will your book be coming out? It'll be coming out in September, so it's I mean it's complete right now, and so we're working on the launch and getting everything set. But yeah, feel free to go to Robcalvisky dot com. You get the first two chapters free, and if you want to do a book order for your team or for your folks at work, let me know because we're we can make that happen.

38:57 Fantastic. Thank you for joining us, and I'm sure that your book is going to help a lot of people, and I'm myself going to be on the lookout for it because I believe that you know, we can be learning every single day. But thank you Rob for joining us. Thank you so much, Davia, Thank. You listeners, Thank you dear audience for being part of our show, because without you, the show would not be possible. And I love that you reach out to us. I love that you know, you share your kinder stories and tell us exactly what you want. So I want to thank each and every one of you who reaches out to me. Cannot thank you enough, and I want to thank one for making this show technically possible. Be well and take care everyone.

39:49 Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence. With your host d V Park, we hope you have learned more about how to start living the life you want. Each week on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships. During Beyond Confidence, Dvpark shares what happened to her when she stepped out of her comfort zone to work directly with people across the globe. She not only coaches people how to form hard connections, but also transform relationships to mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the life they want. If you are ready to live the life you want and leverage your strengths, learn more at www dot dwpark dot com and you can connect with vat contact at dvpark dot com. We look forward to you joining us next week