Feb. 5, 2025

Dealing with a Toxic Boss? Here’s What You Need to Know! 🚨

Show Notes
Transcript

Toxic leaders don’t just make work miserable—they sabotage teams and drain well-being. But you can spot the signs before they derail your career.

In this Beyond Confidence episode, Divya Parekh and Rob Kalwarowsky, a top expert on toxic leadership, reveal the real cost of bad bosses and how to break the cycle.

🎧 Learn the #1 mindset shift to build a thriving, high-performing team. Tune in now and take back your power!

Beyond Confidence is broadcast live Tuesdays at 10AM ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Beyond Confidence TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Beyond Confidence Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beyond-confidence--1885197/support.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.279
The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are

2
00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:04.200
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

3
00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:07.160
those of W four WN Radio. It's employees are affiliates.

4
00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:10.839
We make no recommendations or endorsement for radio show programs, services,

5
00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.960
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability,

6
00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:17.280
explicit or implied shall be extended to W four WN Radio.

7
00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:20.160
Its employees are affiliates. Any questions or common should be

8
00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:22.519
directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W

9
00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:24.199
four WN Radio.

10
00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:28.679
This is Beyond Confidence with your host d W. Park.

11
00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:31.160
Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do

12
00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:34.200
you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional,

13
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:38.479
and financial goals? Well? Coming up on voparks Beyond Confidence,

14
00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:42.159
you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers

15
00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:45.600
who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and

16
00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:48.159
are living the life they want. You will learn how

17
00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:52.039
relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.

18
00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:54.960
Moving your career business forward does not have to happen

19
00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:57.600
at the expense of your personal or family life, or

20
00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:01.960
vice versa. Learn more at www dot divpork dot com

21
00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:06.239
and you can connect with dvant contact dant divpark dot com.

22
00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:10.480
This is beyond confidence and now here's your host, V Park.

23
00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:16.319
Good morning listeners. It's Tuesday morning and it's so fantastic

24
00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:20.079
to be here with you as always, and today we

25
00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:24.319
have a really interesting topic which you know a lot

26
00:01:24.359 --> 00:01:28.159
of people kind of leave their jobs because of it.

27
00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:30.920
And before we get to our guest, I just want

28
00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:35.079
to share with you a beautiful kind of story. So

29
00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:39.519
one of my neighbors, and this is of course he

30
00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:41.480
didn't share with me. I just kind of observed him.

31
00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:45.159
He was walking his dog and then he saw one

32
00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:50.599
of the other neighbors struggling with I think. So he

33
00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:53.239
was trying to remove a rock from his garden and

34
00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:55.840
just kind of taking that shovel and edding it in.

35
00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:02.560
And this gentleman, Hells is the talks like all right,

36
00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:07.640
stay put and walking behind them, went up to the

37
00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.599
neighbor helped him move that drug out of the way.

38
00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:13.919
So what I want to share with you is that

39
00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:17.719
when we come together a little act of kindness can

40
00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:23.800
help someone because together we are stronger. So go ahead,

41
00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:27.840
take that time and be sure to set a few

42
00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:33.039
moments here and there throughout the month and do a

43
00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:36.439
kindness act because it's more for you than for anybody else.

44
00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:41.840
And thank you everyone for getting a book. Who if

45
00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:45.039
you have got our books, we really really appreciate it.

46
00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:47.879
And if you have not, please do get our books

47
00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:53.479
because just yesterday I got an email from one of

48
00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:56.479
the readers and they shed that the book had changed

49
00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:01.039
their life. So and also part the proceeds go to

50
00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:03.719
key what our orgs together to be a changing lights.

51
00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:05.639
And let's welcome our guest.

52
00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:10.919
Hi, Davieah, how are you good?

53
00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:12.159
How are you welcome?

54
00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:15.360
Rob? Thank you so much for having me. And it's

55
00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:19.560
obviously you're doing incredible work and helping your neighbors out

56
00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:22.560
is always such a strong and fulfilling experience.

57
00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:27.080
I'm just reporting on that I didn't help move the rock,

58
00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:31.039
but but the goal is that we help move the

59
00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:35.639
needle for other people and it's so important. So Rob,

60
00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:39.680
share with us. You know, I love the background, like

61
00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:42.199
you know you're in coastery Gun and that's so fantastic.

62
00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.840
Share it with us. As to if you remember a

63
00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:49.680
moment or a person that left a positive mark on

64
00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:52.759
you in your young life.

65
00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:58.240
Yeah, so that's a great question I actually had. I

66
00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:00.360
used to play water polo, and I have a water

67
00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:06.319
polo coach from when I was twelve to eighteen, and

68
00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:12.479
he was amazing. Actually one of the most the biggest

69
00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:15.520
lessons he actually taught me. One was, of course, working

70
00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.920
hard and doing the work, but the other thing was

71
00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:22.560
I remember when I was about twelve years old and

72
00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:26.639
we were out of practice and I just didn't have energy.

73
00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:30.639
And I remember being frustrated at myself. And I know

74
00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:33.040
a lot of the listeners, especially if you demand a

75
00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:36.199
lot from yourself, like many of my clients do, it's

76
00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:40.279
very frustrating and you're like, why can't I deliver? Yeah,

77
00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:42.680
and he was he was telling me. He's like, you

78
00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:46.959
have times where you have energy and times where you don't,

79
00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:51.360
and it's a natural cycles to go through, and so

80
00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:55.480
you have to take into account that as you're progressing.

81
00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:59.199
And I think it's a lesson that in business, especially,

82
00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.199
a lot of executives think that they should be going

83
00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:06.160
one hundred percent all the time, and it's just not

84
00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:09.959
it's not reality, nor is it biologically true.

85
00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:15.839
Yeah, the brain works at its own pace, and the

86
00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:19.199
more you push it, the more it's going to this

87
00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:23.680
away you. So definitely, so tell us a bit about

88
00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:27.160
your journey from playing water polo and learning that beautiful

89
00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:30.199
lesson to where you are right now.

90
00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:35.240
Yeah, so it's been a fun ride. So so I

91
00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:38.800
played water polo, I went to my tea and got

92
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:44.959
a mechanical engineering degree, and I started working in mining,

93
00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:50.160
so in coal mining out in British Columbia, and that's

94
00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:55.279
when I encountered my first toxic boss. And it started

95
00:05:55.800 --> 00:06:01.720
really chipping away at the confidence. At MIT, they're telling you, hey,

96
00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:03.759
you're a world leader, like you're going to be a leader,

97
00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:06.560
You're you're, you know, going to change the world, You're

98
00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:08.319
going to do these things. And you come out and

99
00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:14.639
you're like, let's go. And it wasn't. I wasn't performing

100
00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:16.959
at work like I spent the first year there, I

101
00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:19.560
saved them tens of millions. I was like, okay, here

102
00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:24.879
we go. And it started off as these passive, aggressive

103
00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:31.720
comments to you know, just like basically complete denial of me,

104
00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:34.480
and that started leading into depression.

105
00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:37.040
I'm sorry you had to go through.

106
00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:41.560
That, thank you. And actually it's something that like we'll

107
00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:47.399
talk more about it, but but toxic managers increase the

108
00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:51.839
risk of depression by three percent in their workplace. Yeah,

109
00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:54.920
and there's a study out of Stanford that talks about

110
00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:59.560
how the ways company managed their people is worth one

111
00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:02.839
hundred twenty thousand deaths per year in the United States alone,

112
00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:05.399
which makes it the fifth leading cause of death.

113
00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:06.639
Ah.

114
00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:14.480
So yeah, it's it's out of control. And like I'm

115
00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.920
sure you've you've heard the statistics like seventy percent of

116
00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:21.560
people would quit their job based on a batter, fifty

117
00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:25.839
percent actually have and then using the research that I use,

118
00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:30.360
sixty five point one percent of people have a destructive

119
00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.000
leader is what the research calls it to dict.

120
00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:39.399
Yeah, I mean these are sad statistics and it's it

121
00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:44.560
is really sad. So as you mentioned, you know your

122
00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:48.720
personal like you got impacted personally, how did you come

123
00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:49.279
out of it?

124
00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:54.600
Yeah, it took a lot, right, and so it kept

125
00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:58.160
chipping away and I really got into my own mind

126
00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:02.480
and ultimately led to a suicide attempt in twenty thirteen.

127
00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:04.639
Oh I'm so sorry.

128
00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:11.240
I'm actually grateful that for that experience today because it's

129
00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:14.279
put me on the path that I am now right

130
00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:18.600
and the thing deva I don't want to hold us

131
00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:22.439
in that space. But the part that's really I think

132
00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:26.040
the saddest part is the next morning, I went got

133
00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:29.680
dressed and I went to work, and I knew consciously

134
00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.600
that my boss and my life was killing me. But

135
00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:37.360
I didn't have the power to choose to do anything

136
00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:45.320
else because my mind was so trapped. And it took

137
00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:47.879
me a while to sort of overcome that and then

138
00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:52.320
to choose, Hey, I need to make a change. Yeah,

139
00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:56.919
And it was in late twenty nineteen where I started

140
00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:01.080
working very intensely and deeply on myself, obviously with help

141
00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:06.679
of coaches and therapists and all these things, right, And

142
00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:09.519
that was the unlock, and exactly what you talk about

143
00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:13.399
at the beginning of your show happened. In five years.

144
00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:16.759
I went from the preston suicidal as an engineer to

145
00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:20.679
an executive coach, an author, a tedex speaker. Right now,

146
00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:23.879
my TEDx talk has like roughly two hundred and thirty

147
00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:27.919
forty thousand views. My book's going to be coming out

148
00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:32.840
later this year. And I live in the beautiful sunny

149
00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:39.320
Costa Rica instead of Northern Canada. And the biggest change

150
00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:42.240
is what's going on in my psychology.

151
00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:50.159
Now. Congratulations, and I appreciate you sharing that. You know,

152
00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:51.960
we don't want to be in that space and at

153
00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:56.600
the same token, it's important to acknowledge it because in

154
00:09:56.720 --> 00:10:00.919
our society, the expectation is got to be strong. You've

155
00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:03.559
got to be that strong of a leader. The key

156
00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:07.120
is that, yes, you've got to be strong, but it's

157
00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:10.600
also important to recognize that you've got to be strong

158
00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:13.919
to recognize where you are at. Yes, you've got to

159
00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:17.080
be strong. You've got to be courageous to recognize where

160
00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:21.759
you are at. Be compassionate towards yourself, and give yourself

161
00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:25.440
permission that it's okay to feel that way, but not

162
00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:29.759
stay there, find help like you did, and move beyond it.

163
00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:38.879
So let's kind of come to the elephant in the room.

164
00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:44.200
You mentioned about sixty five plus some change. I mean,

165
00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:49.320
that's a huge number. So can you share as to

166
00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:52.240
how many different types of toxic leaders are there?

167
00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:59.200
Yes, so there's six types of toxic leaders. And so

168
00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.799
when we think about toxic leaders often we think about,

169
00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:07.000
you know, someone who's aggressive, they're yelling at their people,

170
00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:09.639
you know that kind of thing, right, Like that's the

171
00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:13.679
classic a whole boss. And when I when I talk

172
00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.919
about it, I like just think about like Gordon Ramsey

173
00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:21.919
on Hell's Kitchen and someone gives them like undercooked chicken.

174
00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:22.120
Right.

175
00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:27.639
That that's the classic, but it's actually not that common.

176
00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.120
So only five point five percent of folks have a

177
00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:35.559
boss like that. What's more common is a boss that's

178
00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:39.840
called an abusive narcissist. And so these are people who,

179
00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:44.960
again they make threats, they cut you down, they abuse you,

180
00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:49.399
and it's all about them. And a like a classic

181
00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:54.960
movie portrayal of this is Leonardo DiCaprio's role in Wolf

182
00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:58.519
of Wall Street. So like, you're right, so it's all

183
00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:01.240
about me. I'm putting you down, but I'm taking all

184
00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:04.039
the credit and like that's how I get ahead. And

185
00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:07.279
actually almost twenty percent of folks have a boss like that.

186
00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:14.440
Wow. Yeah, And how can they recognize because so many

187
00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:18.279
times what happens is that it's a different matter if

188
00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:23.679
you have a coach. So for example, when people come

189
00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:28.240
to me, then I will help them differentiate where they're

190
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:33.080
at fault, where they're not what their boss is saying

191
00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:37.399
and taking. And sometimes the feedback is true. So we

192
00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:39.879
cannot just kind of say that, you know, every boss

193
00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:43.639
is bad because the destructive boss is out there. So

194
00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:46.759
tell us a little bit about how can people recognize?

195
00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:54.480
Yes, So if you get feedback. Right, if the person's

196
00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:57.399
yelling at you and swearing at you and calling you

197
00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:00.679
all these names, it's probably inappropriate.

198
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:02.039
And that's very obvious.

199
00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:07.840
Like regardless if you didn't do a great job, it's

200
00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:12.840
still inappropriate. Right. Of course, the other side of it, right,

201
00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:18.039
is exactly what you're mentioning, right, is feedback is appropriate

202
00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.279
for the office, right And as a manager, as a leader,

203
00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:25.080
you have to give your folks feedback. When I talk

204
00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:28.799
about people giving feedback, it has to be structured, it

205
00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.039
has to be about the process, not the person, and

206
00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:36.000
it has to be sort of future centric. So hey,

207
00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:39.919
next time, I would like you to do this, or

208
00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:43.279
what was the decision that you made that led you

209
00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:45.840
to doing it this way? Next time, let's tweak that

210
00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.360
and do it this way. Right. So it's a little

211
00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:51.600
bit different in a sense. But if someone's just giving

212
00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:54.559
you feedback like rob your bad guy, or like that

213
00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:57.360
work sucked, like, that's not very helpful.

214
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.279
Absolutely, those are great points. And you did mention that

215
00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:07.879
six different types of leaders, So if you're good with it,

216
00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:10.720
you know, kind of share with this in brief what

217
00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:15.919
do they look like and how can professional so like leaders?

218
00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:19.080
I mean, it doesn't matter. You know, I've worked with

219
00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:21.399
C suite exec teams and then they say, like their

220
00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:25.480
CEO is a narcissist or toxic, and it doesn't matter

221
00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:30.399
nowadays in the genders, it's no longer that women are

222
00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:36.120
nurturing all the time. It's just leaders. It's a gender irrelevant.

223
00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:39.159
So give us a little insight in that, like, because

224
00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:42.759
so many times what happens is that leaders or professionals

225
00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:45.840
thing that something is wrong with them because we, like

226
00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:48.799
you said, we tend to be hot on ourselves.

227
00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:55.799
That's the biggest part actually, right. So, and the studies

228
00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:59.759
show actually that narcisism helps you climb the ladder in

229
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:03.159
the organization. Still, and I mean, if we look at politics,

230
00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:09.200
we can see this across the board. Right. However, when

231
00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:14.279
we're talking about ourselves. First off, folks who are narcissists

232
00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:20.039
or arrogant and violent bosses are never watching this show, right,

233
00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:29.399
So if you're watching this show, you're not one of them. Right.

234
00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:33.639
And so now it's about looking at how are we

235
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.840
as a leader and what's going on upstairs in our psychology.

236
00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:41.759
And that's where the book and I talk about this

237
00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.120
a lot, but we start we need to start listening

238
00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.519
to those parts of us that are talking in our minds.

239
00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:52.080
And it's like in a movie where the devil or

240
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.120
the angels on your shoulder, or folks have watched inside out.

241
00:15:55.519 --> 00:16:00.039
It's like those little characters that are standing at the

242
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:04.200
troll panel in that little girl's mind. It's like that, right,

243
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.600
And as we start listening to these parts of us

244
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.039
that are saying, hey, Rob, you gotta work harder, or hey,

245
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:12.639
you got to do more, or hey you got to

246
00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:17.919
you know people, please, like whatever those parts are saying

247
00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:21.559
to you, you got to listen, and then you need

248
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.840
to choose, as the leader of yourself, what's the best

249
00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:25.759
path for you.

250
00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:34.200
Yeah, know, that definitely makes sense because the sabbators, there

251
00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:37.120
are so many different sabators, like you know, the judgment

252
00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:40.279
where you are judging your shelf, you're judging others, you're

253
00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:45.399
judging the circumstances, becoming aware. It's almost like you know,

254
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.120
having your hand on the stuff top, it's important to know,

255
00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:51.840
like you know, it's it's what it's telling you. Is

256
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:55.240
it providing you a signal that hey, all right, you

257
00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:57.039
know your hand is on stuff top, But if you

258
00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:01.279
linger around there, then that's what causes all the issues.

259
00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:08.359
So now let's say you somebody's like that savatory is

260
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:12.720
telling you something, what you're doing, what you're not. So

261
00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:17.400
somebody is in that relationship with the toxic boss before

262
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:20.200
they get to the place where, like you know, they

263
00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:26.960
could sell phone themselves, how could they recognize that toxicity

264
00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:28.279
and what could they do about it?

265
00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:34.720
Yes, this is where exactly what you're talking about via

266
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:38.880
is important is being in tune with how you feel.

267
00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:43.599
So before you can start often before you can start listening,

268
00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:47.440
you have to feel first. And so if you notice

269
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:52.119
that you're emotionally disconnected, which I was, right, because we're trained,

270
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.400
a lot of us are trained in childhood that like

271
00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:01.279
suck it up, push it down, work harder better, right,

272
00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:05.880
And so now we're adults and we're not trained to feel.

273
00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:10.519
But it's if we just start and there's many apps

274
00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:13.400
to do this for free. Right, It's just like if

275
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:17.039
we just train ourselves to maybe rate how we're feeling

276
00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:20.680
every day once a day, right, and we start getting

277
00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:23.440
in tune and we start noticing, Hey, when I go

278
00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:29.599
to work, I feel terrible When my boss says these

279
00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.599
things to me, I feel terrible. When I see him

280
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:37.880
or her, I feel terrible. That's when we can start

281
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:42.039
going okay, this is the common pattern, and then it's

282
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:46.359
about choosing for yourself, right, and I can't like people

283
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:48.039
often ask me, hey, Rob, what should I do if

284
00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:52.680
I have a bad boss? Well? Right, Often there's a

285
00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.720
lot of the nuances, which is, what's your financial situation,

286
00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:58.599
what's your family situation? Like, what are these things going

287
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:04.759
on in your own life that either allow you to quit,

288
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:09.680
allow you to internally transfer at your company, allow you

289
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:14.799
to stay at your job, like whatever that is. I mean,

290
00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:17.920
even there are many a couple boss types at least

291
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:21.720
that you can manage them. Of course, an abusive narcissist

292
00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:25.480
is not on that list of right, But there are

293
00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:30.000
a couple boss types, the messy bosses and the ghost managers,

294
00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:34.039
where you can manage them because they're not out to

295
00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:37.880
get you. They're just not super great leaders.

296
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:43.000
And that definitely makes sense because so many times what

297
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:47.599
happens is that individual contributors are doing great work and

298
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:52.400
then they're promoted, and the companies are so fast paced,

299
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:56.079
especially with changing technology, I mean every especially with AI,

300
00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:59.480
every day things are changing and it's as it is

301
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:01.920
hard to keep up with. And then add to it,

302
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:08.039
the financial rollercoasters, and with companies posting, especially if they're public,

303
00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:11.799
you know they're quarterly results. So their goal is like go,

304
00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:15.599
go go, how can we make profit? And I'm not

305
00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:19.279
saying this is for all companies. Some companies may be

306
00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:23.599
training their people to be good leaders, but what I've

307
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:30.359
seen is that even after training, that full realization and

308
00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:34.559
in depth doesn't happen because you're just kind of consistently moving.

309
00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:36.400
I mean, of course there are a lot of companies

310
00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:40.680
who do that. So if you have those type of

311
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:43.119
bosses who want not out to get you, and that's

312
00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:47.519
thank you for sharing that key difference, what may be

313
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:52.640
some of the ways that employees and professionals can manage it?

314
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:58.000
Absolutely? So I mentioned the messy boss, right, and so

315
00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:03.720
these folks I like in it to mister bean right,

316
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:08.680
there's some lack of awareness and they kind of go

317
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.880
through life and there's sort of chaos happening around them.

318
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:14.960
They sort of create that chaos. And often you can

319
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:19.680
see this at work with when a team's running, they're

320
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:22.240
not really sure where they're going. Everyone's doing a lot

321
00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.119
of work, but there's no clear picture if you ask

322
00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:26.960
them like, hey, where's your team going? What are the

323
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:29.720
team goals? What are your deliverables for this year? They

324
00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:34.440
don't know, and they struggle with prioritization. They're just like

325
00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:40.359
getting emails, answering things, doing work like that. Right. This

326
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:45.359
is when there's a moment where you can coach your boss.

327
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.279
They say, hey, Davia, I'd like you to do this

328
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:53.039
task or this project. You can ask for information. When

329
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.200
would you like it do? What's the priority? What resources

330
00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:58.599
do I get? These type of things like basically a

331
00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:05.240
project management plan. Right, that's when you can start managing

332
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:11.000
your priorities or getting your manager who's not doing this,

333
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.160
which is part of their role, that you can help

334
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:19.359
them answer the questions that you need answered. The other

335
00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:20.440
type yes.

336
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:23.240
Go ahead, no, no, please continue, Yeah.

337
00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:26.839
The other type is called a cowardly boss or a

338
00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:32.400
ghost manager. And for folks you can who have watched Seinfeld,

339
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:37.079
you can think about like when George sleeps under his desk, right,

340
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.599
And these are folks who don't want accountability, They don't

341
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:44.400
want responsibility, you can see. I actually think this is

342
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.519
very common right now because if they make a decision

343
00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:53.200
and it's wrong, it's you're laid off or they feel internally,

344
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:55.960
I see this a lot. Sometimes with leaders that get

345
00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:59.359
promoted and they're new in a promotion, they're like, I'm

346
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.839
not sure I does serve to be promoted. That's that saboteur, right,

347
00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:07.440
I'm the impostor. I'm not good enough. Look at all

348
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:14.480
these other folks, right. That's when they don't accept responsibility

349
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:19.039
or accountability. And that's if you have a manager that

350
00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:21.720
you ask them a question and they go, well, Rob,

351
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.079
you know, that's that's upper management's decision. Or I read

352
00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:28.240
out of this one. My boss, one of my bosses,

353
00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:32.240
used to say this, but I read the Steve Jobs

354
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:35.880
documentary or the book, and he says, hire the best

355
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:40.880
people and let them do the work. That's when you

356
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.160
have to take control. And so you need to figure

357
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:48.440
out what is the path for you, And then you're

358
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:54.359
asking for approval versus a plan. So it's saying, hey, Divia,

359
00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:57.880
what if I give you this work by Friday? Does

360
00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:02.480
that work for you? Right? Or can I use this

361
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:06.599
resource in this other department? Does that work right? And

362
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:09.079
so basically you've figured out the plan and you're just

363
00:24:09.160 --> 00:24:13.279
asking them to go, yeah, that sounds good, yep, no.

364
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:17.440
And that's very powerful because and thank you for like

365
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:23.519
you know, differentiating between different types of bosses, because that's

366
00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:28.160
where that differentiature kind of pops up. That they're not

367
00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:32.920
intentionally toxic. They are just chaotic and as a result

368
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.240
of the chaos, there is confusion and frustration. So that

369
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:41.200
frustration is a whole lot different than somebody who's passive aggressive,

370
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:42.359
like you had.

371
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:47.440
Absolutely yes, yes, And so those folks would benefit a

372
00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:53.200
lot from management training and also some like for some

373
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:56.640
of them, some work on their mindset, right, And you

374
00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:01.119
mentioned about companies training their leaders, and Business Review has

375
00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:05.240
a study out and they say that companies spend three

376
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:08.079
hundred and fifty six billion dollars per year own leadership

377
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:12.079
training and only twenty five percent of it works because

378
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:16.519
it addresses the leader's mindsets. And you know this because

379
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:19.279
you work on this with your clients. Right, is if

380
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:23.720
we have saboteurs, it doesn't matter that you were told

381
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:26.720
in a training that you need to give feedback in

382
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:29.240
this way, or you need to make decisions in this way,

383
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:33.599
or you've got to use the Eisenhower matrix, right, because

384
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:38.480
your brain is going to override that. And that's why

385
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:42.119
the deeper mindset work is so important, is so then

386
00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:46.519
you can actually action those things that you've learned.

387
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:52.319
Yeah, and that's a very relevant point. Job. So we've

388
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:55.839
kind of like talked about that. Okay, if your boss

389
00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:01.119
is X, Y and Z, then what you can do Now,

390
00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:04.559
let's say it's possible. So many times what happens is

391
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:09.200
that a lot of people are thinking, oh, this person

392
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:12.240
is like that, and when we talk about that, judge

393
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:18.920
Savatur judging everyone, and how can they take that moment

394
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:27.599
and see and check that are they not only experiencing

395
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:35.480
in their mind but also exhibiting those questionable boss behaviors.

396
00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:41.880

Dealing with a Toxic Boss? Here’s What You Need to Know! 🚨

Listen On

Featured Episodes

Recent Episodes

Support On