July 29, 2025

Leadership Lessons from 88 Countries

Show Notes
Transcript

Join Divya Parekh for an inspiring conversation with mother-daughter duo Natalie and Dr. Evelyn Higgins, authors of the Amazon #1 bestseller Have a Love Affair with Travel. With a combined legacy of leadership across government, healthcare, and education—plus 88 countries and all 50 states between them.

Beyond Confidence is broadcast live Tuesdays at 10AM ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Beyond Confidence TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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This is Beyond Confidence with your host w park. Do

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you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you

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want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional,

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and financial goals? Well? Coming up on dvparks Beyond Confidence,

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you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers

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who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and

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are living the life they want. You will learn how

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relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.

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Moving your career business forward does not have to happen

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at the expense of your personal or family life or

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vice versa. Learn more at WWWA. You don't divpork dot

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com and you can connect with Divant contact dans dvpark

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dot com. This is beyond confidence and now here's your host,

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div Park.

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Good morning listeners, It's Tuesday morning, and of course I'm

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excited to be here with you all because I get

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to be with you. So one very exciting thing happened

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as a fellow writer to another fellow writer. We were

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just having a conversation and I was experiencing a writer's

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stuff and this is actually one of my clients. So

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I'm helping her develop her own story. And she was

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so kind and said, gave me the same advice back, Divia,

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what if you were to walk away for a couple

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of days and not look at your book? And it's amazing.

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We all know the answers. It's just sometimes we need

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someone to remind us or be there for us. So

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take a moment to be there for someone. And let's

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bring in our guests. So welcome Emlen and Natlie.

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Hello, Love, thank you for having us.

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Oh, I think Sovia going to have a very exciting

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conversation today. So Natalie, if you recall a moment with

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your mom, you know, a wonderful moment from your childhood.

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Do share, Oh wonderful I've had. I had a wonderful childhood.

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I was raised in the country and in Oakalla, Florida,

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which is just about an hour north of Orlando. So

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needless to say, we had all the luxuries of being

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able to go and to go to Disney World and

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places like that. But I'll tell you my family. We

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come from a very humble family and a very hard

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working family. And that really because of the hard work

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that really shaped my life and my professional life. As

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I soon you know, when I first got into the

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professional world, you know, working in the Florida Senate and

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then from there being an executive director and then a CEO,

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a contract lobbyist. All of that came from that hard work,

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came from my childhood experiences with my family and the

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hard work and the ethics that was instilled in my

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life at a very young age. And debas she does that, now,

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let me tell you this is the hardest working person.

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She will be on the phone all day talking to

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people and encouraging them and exuding leadership, and then she

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will stay up two o'clock and more than working on something.

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So when she says she loves work, I do I

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enjoy it and so not enjoy work. You know, it's

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a different life. But if you really enjoy your job

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and your hobbies and you know that, that really shows

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and I'm just very fortunate I have that opportunity.

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And also it's not work, then right, it's living right

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because a lot of people say I need to have

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work life balance. But when you work is your life

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and when you're enjoying it, then it doesn't seem like work.

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You're in the flow, you're living your life. It's such

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a it's it's a paradox. It is when you have

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that clear cut distinctions that makes the difference.

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But diva it also is is that you know, you

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really have to talk about balance, and definitely I understand.

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I think that's extremely important. When you do love your job,

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you really do get very much engaged in it. But

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when it becomes something that is much more than a job,

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something you really enjoy. I you know, besides my day

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job that I do and I love and I spend

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a lot of time on it, we are also authors.

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And then what we do is late in the evening

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because I worked till what seven o'clock or you know,

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beyond that late in the evening. Then we work together.

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And to me, it's not like, oh my gosh, I

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got to do something else. I'm so exhausted. Yes i am,

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but I enjoy it. And when you find something you

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love doing what you want to do, is you find

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that time. It's a priority. So I have made sure

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in order to get a book that we wrote out

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in one year, I actually had to make it a

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priority where I work at least one hour a day,

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no matter what, one hour a day, but of course

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it was a lot more in order to get it done,

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you know, and vibyah. It's very interesting. As I said,

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we have this book and most people will say, oh,

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I can't stand marketing. You know, we've written the book

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that then we have to market it. Let me say,

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we enjoy it and it has just like we were saying,

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it has to be something that you love, you that

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you love doing, or you decide, oh now just be

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a ball and we're.

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Not going to do that. Yeah. No, it's important that

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you enjoy and I really like what you'll are sharing.

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Is that setting that priority? So tell us, like, you know, Natalie,

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you've been through so many careers in your life. How

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did you know then to pivot.

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When you felt it was right. When I finished the

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Florida Center, I was there for ten years at that point,

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this was this was several decades ago, maybe three decades ago,

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and at that time it was pretty much of a

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man's world, and so it was the youngest female staff

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director and uh and I enjoyed it. I loved it,

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and I respected my senators. I appreciated it, and I

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appreciated the process of the Florida Legislature. But when I left,

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I just knew it was time. It was one of

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the things when you feel that you have you have

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reached your goals, you're at a level that you you

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know won't be able to break anymore, and that you

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know there's some other things out there, and so that's

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what I chose to do.

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Well, that's very powerful. How did you get into the

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Senate piece? Because so many times what happens is, you know,

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there's always a stigma associated with politicians. They could be

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the best people in the world and yet be you know,

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as a society and as a people, as a collective,

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we look at them with some skepticism. So what got

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you in there? And what were some of the learnings

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from that time.

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Well helped me out because see, I was raised in politics.

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My dad actually he ran political campaigns when I was younger,

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and also he ran for office. It was hard for

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me because he lost I think it was three campaigns

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and lost. And then my mother actually ran and lost

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by just a few votes. H So you see, politics

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is very tough. But we had a brother that did

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that up. It became a representative in the Florida House.

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So politics is kind of our life. But you know what,

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I didn't want to go in it because election it

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was just like I had a pit in my stomach.

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Every election it was like I just could you know,

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it was you know, we're going to lose, or if

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we lose, that's how much time and effort we put

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into this. And so I didn't want to do it.

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So I went to college and I did what I loved,

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and that was art, and I realized, well, maybe I'm

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just not gonna make money there, you know, be able

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to have a professional job. But I went into television

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broadcasting and from there I volunteered with a TV show

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called Today in the Legislature, and when I volunteered, they

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kept me on and then I found an internship. I

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got an internship with the Florida Health and that was

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when when a job opened up in the Florida Senate,

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that's when I took that job. And I really did

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not even want to be in politics.

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M that's interesting and it's some you know, life takes

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a detour and it takes us. And as you said,

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so you'll are definitely a family with a very strong

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and strength and like you know, the courage running three

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of Blood's like you know, it's not easy to lose,

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and you kept coming back, so you've made a mark

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on it. So how would you say, like, you know,

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what were some of your defining moments during your you're

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at Senate and then you impacted.

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I was just going to tell how how we got

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into writing the book, but you asked a question about

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the Senate, so I'm really aheady with that. The most

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impactful would be when we had legislation that really positively

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impact families. And I was a major part of that

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because not only was I guiding policy and budget items,

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but I was really working personally with the senators to

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make sure their priority bills or the presence priority bills

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got passed, and so anything to deal with children or

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with seniors. I really have a heart for the aging

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and seniors, which I eventually went into following the Senate,

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but those were my years when we were able to

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do that, and then I was able to get them

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really maximum exposure on the Today's Show things like that,

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So that really was a priority of mine. It was

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a wonderful as timon Florida Senate to interject, was this

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you asked about losses. Actually, when I lost my election

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in nineteen ninety two, my husband said to us, why

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don't you and Natalie go to Europe? And we said, no,

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you can't go. We can't go. We can't, we can't

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take time off, and who's going to take care of

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the dogs? And he said, just go, I will take

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care of the dogs. So out of this loss that

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we had has developed this interest in travel and interested

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in writing. So I just wanted to subject that because

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you mentioned about sometimes from losses like this can develop

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a whole morph into something that is really that you

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want to do, which was we.

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Come back to it, and the losses are something you know,

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we call them as losses, but these are growth opportunities

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and how I live different directions. So you mentioned you know,

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Natalie that you were interested in supporting seniors, So walk

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us through the journey how you went through that and

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ended up being a CEO.

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From the Florida Senate. I had an opportunity when a

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knew governor came in, Governor Bush to work in his

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administration with one of the departments. So I really had

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an opportunity to be able to see the department life

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where my side was the basic legislative side of it.

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So I got to see the executive branch and be

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a part of the executive branch. And then from there

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I had the most wonderful opportunity that just kind of

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fell in my lap. It was with the Alzheimer's Association

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at a state level, and so what I did I

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was hired to be their director of Policy at the

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state level. And what we did was we just did

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incredible work those seven years. We brought in so many

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volunteers and people, so many people that have been touched

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by Alzheimer's or dementia and brought them in to get engaged.

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We even had we started called Rally and Tally is

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bringing people bringing caregivers up to Tallahassee. We had one

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year almost five hundred people from around the state come

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up to Tallahassee and really advocate for enhanced policies for

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caregivers and people with dementia. And so with that we

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did extremely well. From there, I was promoted up to Washington,

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d C with the National Alzheimer's Association and worked in

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the DC office for two years. I was the director

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of Systems Change. So they were working so yeah with

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the Healthy Human Services and we worked directly with them

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on systems change.

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Very nice. So tell me, like, you know, what were

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the lessons. Like, you know, as you're growing this experience,

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you know, a lot of women kind of think this

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is not for me, this is for me, and you

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have kind of taken an unconventional route. So what would

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your message be to those women?

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To our listeners, I would say, this, go the way

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your heart is telling you. Now, why did I say that? See,

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with the hard work that I have been in siled

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in when I'm you know, growing up in our family,

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I felt that I probably could have gone to some

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corporation and work in a big corporation or so on.

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But I chose this way because also my family, my

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dad was very much into helping individuals at one time,

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very early, very early on in my life. I really

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don't even remember too much about it, but he was

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a preacher, So you know, it's our Our family has

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always been helping others. My mother was a teacher that

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ended up becoming professional a professor and then a medical writer.

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But our lives and all of our family and all

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the siblings we were really kind of have that instilled

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in our lives of really helping individuals. So I didn't

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go the route of the big corporations. And I'm not

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saying that there's anything wrong with it. I'm not saying

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that you're actually not helping people if you do that,

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But this is just the way I chose that. From

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the Florida Senate and getting that experience, and then working

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with a national organization that really supports individuals in a

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very vulnerable time, especially family caregivers, and to be able

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to support and help policy and shape policy and the

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way things are done here in the state of Florida,

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and then from there actually go I was actually a

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contract lobbyist for a few years. I enjoyed that, and

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I actually did take on a lot of nonprofits organizations

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that really had no idea of how to get anything

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done in the legislature and then from there I became

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the CEO of the Florida Association of Managing Entities. Now

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what is that We oversee Florida's behavioral health safety nets system.

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So my members of my association and there's only seven,

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So you're saying, how could that be association? Just seven?

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These seven people, these seven organizations manage one point two

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billion dollars in the state of Florida. And we do

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oversee behavioral health services. We develop networks for providers that

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serve individuals with a mental illness, with substance use prevention,

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opiate addictions, suicide, I mean all of that particular area

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housing so that they can recover. So that's what we do.

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We don't provide the services, we manage and we pay

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for services.

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Now, there can be so many hard times, right that

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there's all these causes that you're talking about, so much

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need for them, they're worthy causes and people are really suffering,

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and then you may have the budget constrained, So how

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do you manage that? Where you're looking at some of

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the programs and you know, as individuals, we all have

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these questions like, you know, how are you balancing the

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priority of that.

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You make it a priority. You make it a priority

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with the legislature, and of course how do you do that,

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You really develop relationships with legislators. Now what normal people,

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and I say normal knows the word normal. They hire

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contract lobbyists. That was something I used to do. We

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aren't allowed to do that because we have state and

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federal dollars, so we're not allowed to contract. But the

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good news is is I come from that world, so

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I know it and I used to do it. So

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it's one of these things that's really educating. Our leaders

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are an executive branch, whether it's the governor or the departments,

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and our senators, our House members, and are also our

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local leaders, our share us and so on, understanding what

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is really needed and then getting their support for us

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to really reach out and be successful with policy issues

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or budgetary issues. You can see where this is part

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of leadership, which you have asked us about how leadership,

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how we look at leadership, and this is Natalie has

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a whole host of training that she does in the

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area of leadership, which is she in working with her people,

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she never assumes that they will think a certain way,

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so she has to work with them and have good

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communication skills to do this. This is what we feel

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is she's very very good at that and it's all

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part of leadership. It's just you know, really reaching out,

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never seen anything, asking questions, building a consensus, engaging your

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your board members or with your staff to get you know,

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your goal, so get to where you want to go.

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Yeah, And so there may be a lot of young

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women or young men who may be wanting to get

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into the politics. And as you said that, you know

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you can make a difference. So can you elaborate a

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little bit more about how does the contract lobbying work

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and if they cannot do anything? You did mention about

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educating and engaging and so what are some of the

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ways to influence and just some part provoking action that

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are young ones can take.

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Navia, I get, I get that question all the time.

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You know, what's the difference between lobbying and educating? Okay?

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So our advocating Okay. So lobbying is actually when you

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are paid, You have a contract and you are paid

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to actually go and try to influence, whether it's the

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executive branch or the legislative branch or even local government.

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You know, you Actually in some states you actually have

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to you know, registered to lobby for local government. So

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that is lobbying when you actually get paid. Advocating is different.

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Advocating is educating, So advocating you're not getting paid. That

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is the difference. You don't have a contract for that

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purpose to go influence leaders on a certain position. So

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those are the two differences. Now how do you get

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into that? If you want to be a contract lobbyist,

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my suggestion would be is to start volunteering or being

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an intern, being an intern with a legislator or in

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a legislative office, or a volunteer. See notice the word volunteer,

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because that's what I did. I volunteered for today in

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the legislature. That's how I actually got in. And then

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from there you may have an opportunity to be there

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as jobs open up, and then you'll have that experience

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that they're looking for. So that's how you start off.

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Now as advocating, you can actually do the same. You

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can volunteer because that's really what you're doing, you're volunteering.

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You can volunteer if if you are interested in advocating

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for UH saving you know, the animals, you're you're you're

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against uh you know, uh dog pounds or you know,

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killing dogs if they're captured, you know, volunteer and then

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start working with their advocacy group and go to their

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state capital or go to their local government and start

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working that way. That way you'll learn the grassroots of it.

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That's that's how I started.

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Yeah, and that definitely makes sense that you're loaning the

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nuts and bolts of it and while you're in the

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thick and thin off it. There's something to be said

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about the power of proximity which opens up doors. Yes,

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So why you been doing this? You mentioned about creating

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that priority for your book, So tell us about how

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did you get into the writing of the book. What

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is it about?

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Well, our book is called Have a Love Affair with Travel,

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and we started about a year and a half ago,

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a year and a half gun and we were able

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to get the book done in a year. But mother,

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how did you start writing this book? Actually? I was writing.

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I am a by profession, I am a medical writer

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and I have written twenty two books for publishers on

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gene therapy and genetics and so forth. But we decided

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we love travel so much and I had been writing

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little articles for oh, some of the local magazines and

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so forth, and one of the editors said, why don't

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you write about something that only you and Natalie can experience?

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So we started talking about that. Hey, what are some

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of the things. What happened to us under the Eiffel Tower,

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what happened to us writing a camel in Tuisia. So

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we started writing and we had one hundred and one.

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We published it down to seventy nine. So that is

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the way we got started writing on this. And as

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she said, we would have to write because I was teaching,

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but blessed COVID's heart, it cut out a lot of

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the class going to class and so forth, and actually

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we had some time that we could talk a little

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bit more about some of these things, about our experiences.

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So that is how we got started in writing.

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And how many countries both of you have traveled?

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Well we have. Actually we just got a brand new

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country just a few weeks ago, so we're up to

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eighty nine countries, all fifty states and all continents. That

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means we went anarca and that's our favorite. That's one

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of my favorite place is Actually I don't want to

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live there, but it's one of my favorite places to visit.

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And so tell us, like a couple of stories from your.

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Book, Well, do you really want to know about our

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experience under the Eiffel Tower? This our stories. Now, most

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people when you go to the Eiffel Tower, it is

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so exciting because you're going to have your picture taken

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here am I standing in front of the Eiffel Tower,

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and send it back and put it on social media,

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Leadership Lessons from 88 Countries

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