Negotiate with Confidence

0:00 The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of W four WN Radio it's employees or affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsement for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W four WN Radio, its employees or affiliates. Any questions or common should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W four WN Radio. This is Beyond Confidence with your host d W Park. Do you want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you want to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional, and financial goals? Well? Coming up on voparks Beyond Confidence, you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and are living the life they want. You will learn how relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals. Moving your career business forward does not have to happen at the expense of your personal or family life, or vice versa. Learn more www dot Gwpark dot com and you can connect with vant contact at gwpark dot com. This is beyond confidence and now here's your host w Park. Hello. Hello, Hello, so thrilled to be here with you. I love being with you. So a couple of updates. I just want to share with you that our books are doing great, and I want to thank each and every one of you, especially for getting expert to influencer that is going to help you become the influencer who drives

1:37 meaningful impact and the entrepreneur's gotten that's going to help you build wonderful relationships with yourself, with results, with money, and so many others. Thank you so much for getting those Because the partial profits from our both of the book sales go to Kiva dot org. V V are helping entrepreneur all across the globe because entrepreneurs is the species that's going to drive change and keep that kind of circle going. As we always talk about it, Remember to spend one hour of your time every month. You can break it up anyhow you want it and do a kind act wherever you can. And here's what I'm going to share with you today. We have a wonderful guest. Welcome Alice.

2:34 Hello, how are you doing well. So good to have you. Thanks for having me. I'm very excited to be here. Fantastic, So, Alice, we usually start out from the childhood. Do you recall a moment or anyone that has left a mark on you and you still remember that. I absolutely do. I had a fabulous drama teacher when I was in high school. She was my number one cheerleader. She really saw my talent early on. She cast me. I was like the very first junior to get cast as the lead in the senior production because she thought that I was really talented. So she has left an indelible mark on my heart. Hmm.

3:17 And that takes us to celebrating our teachers because you don't realize our educators have such an important role in shaping the leaders of tomorrow. So, as you mentioned that, you know you had interest in theater, but as you grew what for your interest and where did your life take you? Yeah? So I started off really loving theater from the time I was maybe seven, and I wanted to become an actress from very very early on, so I, you know, continue that dream through high school. I was on the speech team and then I was in the theater department. My junior and senior year.

3:58 I went on to get a degree a BFA in acting, and then a few years after that, I went on to work on my master's in directing. Oh and then yeah, and then in two thousand and I moved to San Francisco to follow my dream of becoming a director and very quickly became artistic director for a theater company called three ys Monkey's Theater Company here in San Francisco, and I was also working as a graphic designer for the American Red Cross. Then I did that for several years and eventually did some freelance work as a graphic designer, and then moved on to work in startups in San Francisco. That I worked for five years in two different startups. And then alongside that last startup experience, I started my business as a mediator and a negotiation coach. And here I am today. Oh wow, So let's kind of rewind back and go back to the days where you were directing and you were graphic designing. What was it like because so many times, you know, people are curious that people know that an artist life is can be full of struggles, and there is this perception from outside, right like, especially if you're not an artist. I mean, people can be artists in their own rights in different areas. But since you were enacting, can you share

5:29 with us what was that life like. When I was an actress, it was a theater, not film. There weren't as many Asian actors, and they weren't you know, there was, so there weren't that many Asian roles, and there also was limited opportunity to be cast, like where they do blind color casting and they might cast an Asian person to play one of the main characters in a play. So it was very, very difficult. It was in the early to mid nineties that I was in the theater, so no matter how good I was, a lot of times they would just be like, you're the wrong race. And that was really difficult. And so that's sort of why I moved more towards directing, because I felt like there were more opportunities. Now, mind you, still at that time most directors were male, not that many female directors. But I really enjoyed the craft because I had a wider control over the entire production. As an actor, you only have control over your character and that's it, right, So you don't have any other control over the arc of the play or the scenery or the music and any of that. So I was really able to explore my artistic passion in directing because I was able to really work with a lot of the different designers on the production, and I really dabbled in acting and directing and producing, and I did a little bit of play writing. So I wrote one play and that play actually made it from San Francisco. It got

7:00 produced here first, then it went to Hawaii and got produced there, and then it made it all the way to Scotland to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. So that was really exciting. Of course, that is really really exciting. How did you feel about that? It was really special. It's kind of like having your baby grow up and then your baby starts traveling by himself or herself and you're like, oh my goodness, I hope it's okay. So I didn't get a chance to go to Scotland to watch this show, so I just heard about it. But it really was like your child had grown up and you know, flown the coop. So that was really really cool, and it was really interesting to see the life of its own with the play because I had produced it in San Francisco and then forgotten about it.

7:47 And then a friend of mine went to a conference and she knew about my play. So when they were talking about the World War two history, she chimed in and said, oh, I have a friend who wrote a play about this particular part of and she told these people about it, and one of the ladies at the table set I would like to meet her because I would like to get a copy of her play to use for my high school students as just academic you know, practice right. And so initially when I was contacted by this person in Hawaii, she wasn't looking to take it to Scotland. She was looking to use it for school purposes. And she read my play fell in love with It, went to Scotland a year earlier, and said, I wonder if this will be a good play for the Fringe Festival, and then she determined that it was. So they spent one year raising money and performing it throughout the island of Oahoo so that they could get all the kids all the way over to Scotland to perform the play. So it was really very interesting to see a play take a life of its own and sort of jump up and go and meet people, and then all of sudden get produced with zero to no effort on my part. Oh nice, And see that's the beauty of that. In seeds of today lies the possibilities of tomorrow. And what's amazing is that you wrote it and then it took a life of its own, and you described it so beautifully about seeing your baby grow and letting it go. So as you were writing, I'm sure

9:18 you had your assumptions and perceptions as to how the characters need to act and all that. So when as you mentioned that actors can only control their character, and I'm sure that all actors want to give their own twist, So how did that play out as you were producing that play? So I actually did not direct it, so you can direct your own planes, but in the theater world it's really encouraged you as a playwright. You don't direct your own play specifically because of what you're talking about, because as I'm writing it, I have my own thoughts and ideas of how the characters should be.

10:00 Want to give the actors a bit more freedom so that they can interpret the characters on their own. And sometimes it can like cause friction if they're not doing it the way that I envisioned it, and so you're just too close, right, it's too close. It's your baby, so you want to step away. So, as a playwright, even though I produced it, I did not direct it, and so I released the reins. That is something that is very difficult for a lot of playwright directors to do, to be able to say, Okay, I've written it and I'm going to step away and let someone else direct. But I felt like it was the right thing to do for me because I did not want to clash with the actors. You know, they might not perform it the way I have it in my head, but to me, that was part of the process. It's part of the process to let it go, let it have a life of its own. And even if some of the people are, you know, performing it differently than the way I envisioned it, it's okay, it makes perfect sense. And so as you mentioned that, you know you directed.

11:03 Also after that, what were the lessons you learned and what was it that made you leave the theater area. Well, the easy answer to the second question is I had two kids. I actually spent the first three years of my older son's life still directing, so I was directing with a newborn, I was breastfeeding him. On set, I would just cover myself with a blanket and just be directing with a baby who's breastfeeding. But when you have two babies, that becomes like an impossibility. I literally would bring the like the little playpen, and put the playpen down in the corner of the stage, put my one year old, two year old, three ye old, you know, as he got older, I would put him in there and I would direct. But you know, in the theater, people love what they're doing and so they're dedicating whatever time they can. And so you're in a small theater. Most to the people have full time jobs, and so the rehearsals take place in the evenings from like six to ten or seven to ten, and so once you have kids and you're supposed to spend time with them, that is not possible anymore. So that's the quick answer to why I left the theater. And in terms of what did I learn as a director, I learned really how to communicate in a way that I could get the actors to give me the performances that I wanted without giving them a line.

12:31 Reading. So for those of you who are not in the theater world, a line reading is saying, hey, div you can you say the line like this and you want someone to exactly mimic your intonation the way you're saying it. But it's really not a good way to direct, because you want the actor to really create an inner life and an innermotivation and objectives so that the lines come out the way you want to hear them. But you have to really work hard because is just giving them a line reading is a shortcut, and it really erases all of the rich inner work that they have to do for themselves as an actor. And so as a director, you want to be able to communicate you know, hey, imagine this or imagine that and how would you feel? And so you really want to help them craft the inner life of that character so that the lines come out authentically and they come out the way that you want to hear them. M So helping them step into the character. And it's a beautiful form of negotiation where so many times we don't understand that piece. But it's about influencing others without pushing them or without sore directing. But you're not directing exactly and being directive exactly exactly. You're not being directive, but you're directing a show so that the performances come out the way you envisioned, without you telling them how to say the lines. H that's beautiful. It's about creating that space so that that

14:05 actor can grow, that character can come to life. Because as you mentioned, that actor have actors or actresses, you know, they have that area only of control, so you have to let it go and then have still have that balance where you can share your vision with them and so that your vision is coming to life. Would that be fair? Yes, yes, definitely. And I also learned that I was very good at casting. I feel like I missed my calling in this life as a casting director. I really was able to cast even unusual combinations of actors. Sometimes the playwrights that I worked with questioned my choices early on, saying are you sure what are you doing? For example, I had one it was a very fantastical play where one of the characters was a spider, and so the playwright was envisioning someone with like really thin body and dark hair, you know, so that when they walk in you kind of they look like a spider. And so I cast someone who looked like an angel. It was a wrote, you know, round woman, and she had fair skin and blonde hair. And he was like, she doesn't look spider like whatsoever? What are you doing?

15:18 And I said, trust me, she's going to be fantastic, and he said, she looks more like an angel than a spider. And then I directed it and then he came back and he said, Wow, you picked the right person. She made that character come to life. And so I'm really able to see like the potential of the actors early on when I'm doing a lot of the auditions, and so that's something that I learned there. Yeah, that's so beautiful. And did any of your kids pick up any of your acting or directing or any of those artistic talents in the theater area. So my kids did not, but my nephew actually is interested.

16:00 And it's funny because my brother is not a theater person, so I believe it just jumped over to my nephew. Well, jeans have a really fantastic way of just kind of showing up, and you don't know where what shows up. And yeah, between dominant and recessive genes, of course, we're not going to go into genetics. One oh one. Now that said, you mentioned that you know you had kids and you wanted to spend time with them. So how was that phase the phase? Let's see. So I was very lucky so early on, before I ever became a negotiator, before I ever studied how to negotiate, I was already very passionate about the things that I wanted, and so I sort of figured outout much education in the world negotiation, how to negotiate. So around the time that I was transitioning from leaving the theater world and really trying to raise my children, I had a full time job and they laid everyone off. They laid the entire company because they were moving everyone to the East Coast where the real estate was cheaper and the personnel were cheaper. Right, So at the time, I felt like, Okay, so I have one client who is remote, like while I was working for that company, so already, even though I'm going into the office, I'm on the phone with my client and doing graphic design for this client far away, right, And so I thought, why don't they

17:32 just hire me to work from home? Because there are many benefits they don't have to pay for an office space for me. They don't have to retrain someone. The current client is already happy with my work. So I had a long list of reasons why it was a good idea. And this was the time that I was having small children. I had two small kids, and so working from home would be ideal for me, right because then I'm at home with my kids all the time. And so I made the pitch to the new boss, and the new boss said, no, nothing personal, but I want to hire everyone I know all my people. I don't know you. So the answer is no. And so most people probably would say okay. I tried, but I did not feel like that was good enough of an answer. So I went and got a meeting with her boss, the VP. He again was a new VP who was going to be on the East coast, and I pitched the idea to him and he said, I think it's a great idea. I'm all for it. However, I'm going to let her be the final decision maker. I'm not going to force her, but I'll put in a good word for you. So I thought, Okay, this is still not satisfactory to me. So then I went and talked to the client and I said, do you want me to continue working with you? And they said absolutely, we love you, we love your work. And I said, please put in a good word because the word on the street is that she is not going to retain me, so please let her know you would like to keep me. And I had one more VP that I went to and I said, you like my work, don't you You think i'm a good you know, designer done? And she said yes, and I said, please put in a good word for

19:03 me. So I got another meeting with the boss and she said, Okay, I'm not really happy about this, but I'm getting so much pressure. I'm going to give you a three month trial period to give you home now. I still wasn't happy because I thought three months is nothing like it'll be done right away. And the client told me, just relax, let's see what happens. Let's do these three months and let's work it out. Well. Because I was out of sight, out of mind and getting the work done, she's sort of like forgot about me. Like I'm getting the work done and she doesn't have to supervise me. And those three months turn into eight years of working from home so that I could do work get paid and still raise my kids while they were little. Oh a perfect option for a mom and no supervision. So that's even better and your client is happy.

19:56 What more could anyone want? Exactly as you mentioned that you were going through these good eightears, your kids are grown up. What made you go into the field of negotiation and how did you learn the art of it? Yes, so about eleven years ago, I started a part time job where I was managing O pairs and host families. And for your listeners who are not sure what an O pair is, they are live in caregivers for your children. And typically they're from a different country. So Americans can be OH pairs, but just not in America. They would go to a different country and be an OH pair there. So you live with your host family, you take care of the children, and you earn a stipend. And so I was an area director for a group of O pairs and host families. So what that means is I'm managing them, I'm answering their questions, I'm their support person. And so part of that job included mediating between the host families and the O pairs whenever they're was any kind of conflict. So It could be that the family's not washing the dishes ever and the O pair is not happy about it. It could be that the O pairs coming home late past curfew. It could you know, there's so many different things that could be.

21:11 And then if they break the match, it means that they're no longer going to be working together and the agency has to find a new family for this opening. But before breaking the match, we always try mediation. So I kind of like started that way. They didn't train us, They just threw us into the deep end, and they said go mediate with these families. And I recognize at that time, well, first of all, my very first mediation, I was terrified. I'm like walking up to their door because it's happening in the host family's home where the conflict is taking place, and you're knocking on their door, thinking, oh my gosh, these people are fighting. I'm going to go in the middle of their fight and I hope this doesn't blow up. And so I went and started doing it, and several mediations in I realized, okay, a, no one ever gets mad at the mediator, because I was afraid people would start blaming me for the conflict. And two I was usually able to get it resolved. And three, both sides were usually very grateful for my support, Like, no matter what the outcome was, both sides say thank you so much. I really appreciate you being there. And so I started to realize, Oh, I have like a secret power here that I did not know that I had, which is the ability to mediate and mediate successfully. So in twenty sixteen, I went and got certification and I started my own business. And as I began to do more and more mediations, I also became more interested in negotiation because it's similar, right, it's communication. Yeah, And so I

22:42 took a lot of classes. I took online classes through Harvard, through Yale, through University of Michigan, took all the classes I could find about negotiation, and then started my own negotiation Academy where I teach entrepreneurs how to become better communicators and negotiators. Very powerful. So tell us, since you have had so much experience, practical and experiential, So what skill sets does a good negotiator need? And I'm not talking about having a career like a negotiator. All of us, whether we are in our personal life, whether it's with her family, our kids, or with her friends, or with your colleagues. You know, if you're an entrepreneur, as your clients, regardless where you are at, we are negotiating at a certain point in time.

23:36 So what are some of those skills? So number one skill is the ability to listen deeply. It's almost like an art. I feel like it's a bit of a lost art. Especially with devices now, people are like half listening to you while they're looking on their phone or they're texting someone. Like how many of us have been in a situation where you're talking to someone and then they just like get a ding on their phone and so while you're talking, they look down and they're like responding to someone else, and then they continue listening to you, Right, I feel like it's sort of like a normal thing, except the few minutes that are seconds that they're responding, they're no longer listening to what you're saying, and that just seems to like, you know, get ignored. So people really need to listen deeply in order to become good negotiators because you have to really hear what is going on, not just the words, but what's the motivation of the other person, what is their emotional life right now, what's happened with them emotionally so that you know how to approach them properly. So you really want to be able to do that. And the other very necessary skill is to be able to control your emotional like life. So if you're getting really heated, you should have self awareness to know, Okay, I can't have this conversation anymore because I no longer can listen because very heated emotions stop you from listening. You might still be able to hear something, but I would say it's somewhere between zero

25:08 and twenty percent of what is being said, And I'm saying this from personal experience as I help people when I mediate. If I sense that someone is not listening because they're super upset, I will say something like, can you let me know what it is that you heard? And the person will think about it and they will repeat back everything they heard, and it's usually between zero and twenty percent. It's literally been zero. Sometimes where someone has spoken for five minutes and I say, what did you hear? A person thinks about it and they go, nothing, I didn't catch any of it because they're thinking about stuff in their mind. They're thinking about how I'm going to respond right or they're thinking about I'm just really mad. So so those two are critical. The ability to self regulate and have self awareness of when you're getting upset and the ability to listen are very very critical. If you lose either one of those two, you should like shut down the entire conversation the negotiation because you're you don't have the tools, like they're now not available to you because you aren't listening, and you also are feeling very emotional. Yeah, so what I'm hearing is that be aware of the other person's story, how they're looking at the situation, what is their emotional condition, and how they're identifying that. Are they taking it personally or what's happening? And then similarly, look at how you're looking at the situation, what's your story, what's your emotional level? And then third is like, you know, what

26:41 is it at stake? Because what are you identifying it as? Is it an ego battle issue or is it just you know you're coming to the table to prove somebody wrong. It's about when you talk about that self emotional regulation, it's like, calm down, You'll get the situation objectively and listen to what the other person is saying yes, And so if you have the strategies to be able to calm the other person down, if you have the strategies to be able to calm yourself down, you'll have more success at listening deeply. You'll have more success at getting through a negotiation successfully because you'll have kept all the tools at your disposal. But the minute that listening stops, you suddenly aren't able to negotiate as well as you could if you remain calm and you listen deeply. So how can you prepare to share it? With this a story or an example that shows how can somebody prepare for negotiation and walk us through one of the examples. So you really want to think about what does the other side want. So in the earlier example, I thought about, okay, so maybe the company would not want to pay, like it would behoove them not to have the expense of an office space, right, And I'm also thinking it would be whove them not to have to pay to train a new person, and so all these different things. I'm thinking about

28:11 what are the benefits for the other side. So in order to prepare, this can be for anything, This can be a job offer, salary increase anything. You want to think about what does the other side want, And also you want to think about what things are easy for you to give them, and what things are easy for them to give you but are valuable. Right, just for example, for jobs, I always use this because it's an easy example. But it might be super easy and cheap for a company to offer one two or five days of remote work, and it might be extremely valuable to me to get remote work. It doesn't cost them anything, but it's like huge for me. It might save me commute time, gas, money, time that I can spend with my family, right, And so it's not necessarily financial, it's quality of life. So for me, if I'm negotiating a job offer and I ask for oh, can I work from home and they say yes, all of a sudden, there's like a tremendous value in just that piece of the negotiation. So you really want to think about what it is that you want very very specifically, Like don't fall into the trap of walking into a negotiation feeling like you've prepared by saying I want what's fair, because that is not like fair is subjective. What's fair to you and what's fair to me is completely different. So neither one of us should walk into a negotiation saying, Hi, I'm just here to get what's fair. Okay, So that's number one. So you want to really

29:45 have hardcore numbers or ideas of what you want in the negotiation, so that's part of your preparation. And then think about what are the interests of the other side, and what do you think they want, what is interesting and important to them, and write a list. So then once you have a list, it's easier to trade back and forth. Sometimes people go in. Let's say I used to do mediations for small claims, and they would talk about, like a landlord and a tenant are negotiating the security return of the security deposit. Right, Let's say it's five thousand dollars, so it's worth going to court over. The landlord says, yeah, you destroyed my apartment. You like hung up your paintings and this, that and the other, and there's holes all over my wall. So I'm keeping your security deposit.

30:29 And the other side might say, no, I don't think you should keep all five thousand. So now they're just arguing money. But it's a lot easier if you also add in time, yeap. So maybe you can say, okay, well if I give you more money, now can I give you less? But if you want more of the money, I'll pay it over, you know, like a payment plan for example, or what are other things that you can throw into the mix in order to get what you want? If you happen to be able to do handyman work, maybe you can say, hey, how about I go in and I fix all the walls the holes that I made, and then you return, you know, a large portion of my security deposit. So really think about what can you offer in order to get what you want. So I have a really good, a fun example. So I had a couple that were divorcing, and at the very beginning, the woman said, oh, we both have a car and both of our names are on it. So I would like you to, you know, take your name off of my car and I'll take my name off of your car. And he said, oh, not so fast. I kind of want to hold onto that until we figured out what this whole thing is. And she was very upset because she thought that that was a no brainer. So I said, okay, hold on, let's just pause. Let's just put that one off to the side because you're not in agreement, and let's continue. So we continue for another hour, and then about an hour in they started talking about the outdoor patio furniture and he said, well, I would like to keep the whole thing, and she said, no, I would like half because it's half mine. And he

31:59 said, what is the point of having mismatched furniture? If you take half and I go buy some more to replace it, now they're not going to be matching, So what is the point of that? And so I said, hold on, would you be willing to like, I asked the guy, if you want to keep the whole patio furniture as a set, would you be willing to sign your take your name off the title of her car? And he said done, like he didn't think about it, and she said the same thing. She said, I'll give you the whole patio furniture if you sign my car back to me. And so this is where you're negotiating across different issues. But something's important to one person and another thing's important to another, So you can trade it equally because each like for him, the patio furniture is more important for her, the title is more important, So they just switched, right, they traded. It's again goes back to the first scale that you mentioned, is about lessening deeply and understanding what's important to them. So now let's say entrepreneurs, right, not every entrepreneur is killed in handling objections when they are speaking to a potential customer or even an existing customer. So, especially on a sales call, can you share, like, you know, how entrepreneurs can negotiate from a place of integrity.

33:27 Sure, so, you know, I really do a lot of sales training, but I don't want people to think like, oh, yeah, sales training is really uncomfortable, I don't want to do it, or you know these like scripts that I get. I don't work off of scripts. I don't think people should work off of scripts, mainly because you stop listening because the ideas you don't want to go off of a script, because what you're going to ask next should be determined by the answer that just came to you, right, And so if you're like anticipating to ask the next question, you're not really listening deeply. So I think really the main thing to do if you're trying to sell is you're trying to understand what are the other person's pain points, and then you're trying to determine are you able to solve their pain points? So really ask a lot of questions. And I always tell people, if you're trying to sell something, you should be doing the least amount of talking. The other side should be talking, because you should be asking a lot of questions. So if you're trying to sell your service and you find that you're talking a lot, you need to be like, wait, I need to stop, I need to stop talking, and I need to need to listen more. Sales calls should be about eighty or ninety percent listening and ten percent talking, right, And so you really want to ask a lot of questions about what do they need, what is their ideal, what would they like, what is their budget? Really just dig very very deeply into what they want, what they need, what solutions are they looking for, what kind of budget? And you want to think of a sales call as really just a deal negotiation. So it's not about like me trying

35:00 to sell you my services. It's about what how can I help you? Do I have the services and products to be able to solve your problem, and if so, can we work out a deal so that it makes me money and is also within your budget, right, And so it's really the back and forth dance to find out are we a fit? Are we a fit? Are we a fit? And you can always like fine tune that by asking more and more questions so you can determine, oh, okay, we are a fit or or maybe not quite close of fit. But let's see if we can both move a little bit so that we can become a better fit for each other. Yeah, So becoming curious and being adaptable and flexible, keeping other parties interest, keeping your interest because a lot of people think that when you're keeping other parties interest at the forefront that you have to for sick your interest. It's not the case. You can still have a win win situation and move through it. So this is great. And as we near to wrapping up our conversation, where can people find you? Where can they connect with you? So they can find me on LinkedIn and they can also connect with me at Shaquina Negotiation Academy. So my last name is spelled s h iki na Shaquinanegotiation Academy dot com and they can also shoot me an email or a message on LinkedIn. I'll have all of that in the

36:32 show notes for you. Okay, fantastic, So it was wonderful having you on the show. Any last words, this was lovely. Thank you so much for having me. I always I am very happy to share my passion and knowledge for negotiation and mediation in the hopes that it can empower people to go after what they can get. And I think the last bit of wisdom I'd like to offer to your listeners is always ask for it right You can't. You're not going to lose anything by asking for it. You've got to ask for what you want. And you know you're not going to get a discount or you're not going to get a deal if you don't ask for it.

37:15 So always ask and everything is negotiable. Yeah, so true, so true. So thank you Alis, it was wonderful having you on the show, and thank you listeners for joining us because you know that without you, the show would not be possible. You are the life and soul. Reach out to us, let us know how can we help you. Who else can be growing so that you can live the life you deserve and want. And thank you one for making the show technically possible. So be well and take care until next time. Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence with your host, d v Park, we hope you have learned more about how to start living the life you want. Each week on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who've experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships. During Beyond Confidence, Vapark shares what happened to her when she stepped out of her comfort zone to work directly with people across the globe. She not only coaches people how to form hard connections, but also transform relationships to mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the life they want. If you are ready to live the life you want and leverage your strengths, learn more at www dot dwpark dot com and you can connect with vat contact at dvpark dot com. We look forward to you joining us next week.